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Perhaps you and your friend don't see it on the surface but many other minorities see it everyday. Ask him to give you an honest answer. Does he feel like he gets treated differently than you do because he's black? If he says no then he's either lying, is oblivious to it all or accepts it as normal because there are enough minorities out there to confirm that exact situation.



Looks like buyers remorse is already setting in.

Miners could lose black lung benefits if Obamacare nixed - YouTube

John


Smh......wow
 

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All you have to do is listen to what they are coal miners and their families are saying. It's pretty obvious regardless of where it comes from.



It seems that innuendo and "could" are sufficient in this day and age. Also, I never claimed that what "could" happen is going to. My post stated that it looked like their may be buyers remorse. As far as what "could" happen? What are the odds that what you stated could happen? Probably pretty far fetched. What these coal miners are worrying about has a MUCH higher probability of happening mostly because your candidate said he was going to repeal the ACA. There is a distinct difference in those odds.

John
Well, since they're coal miners, what's the probability of Hillary eliminating their jobs entirely like Obama started?
 

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Discussion Starter #124
I think you are correct. You have been indoctrinated.
 

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Maybe this is the liberal indoctrination speaking here, but I'm more concerned with my health than my job.
The areas where coal mining is a career choice, you'll find that it is one of the better paying jobs. The coal miners most likely have insurance through the mining company (I know the iron mining companies up here pay very well and have great benefits), so it is my suspicion that most of the miners have current coverage and won't lose their coverage should Obamacare be eliminated.

Secondly, the idea that your life being more important than your job would preclude fire fighters, police, prison guards, etc. It's a hollow, empty argument.

The reality is, Obamacare only works for those without a job or those who are dramatically underemployed. Using the argument that elimination of Obamacare will leave coal workers without care while at the very same time wanting coal workers without jobs is in my opinion liberal wish fulfillment. They want to eliminate these people's jobs, get them on the federal government's teat, and then let the Republicans remove the Obamacare so that suddenly they're uninsured, so that they can win their vote back in four years by putting them in the position that they need the government to care for them. It's such a self serving way of thinking it actually makes my head hurt to consider it.
 

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The areas where coal mining is a career choice, you'll find that it is one of the better paying jobs. The coal miners most likely have insurance through the mining company (I know the iron mining companies up here pay very well and have great benefits), so it is my suspicion that most of the miners have current coverage and won't lose their coverage should Obamacare be eliminated.

Secondly, the idea that your life being more important than your job would preclude fire fighters, police, prison guards, etc. It's a hollow, empty argument.

The reality is, Obamacare only works for those without a job or those who are dramatically underemployed. Using the argument that elimination of Obamacare will leave coal workers without care while at the very same time wanting coal workers without jobs is in my opinion liberal wish fulfillment. They want to eliminate these people's jobs, get them on the federal government's teat, and then let the Republicans remove the Obamacare so that suddenly they're uninsured, so that they can win their vote back in four years by putting them in the position that they need the government to care for them. It's such a self serving way of thinking it actually makes my head hurt to consider it.
So the coal industry is doomed because Obama wants cleaner air. China and India use coal at an alarming rate. They buy more coal than all the other countries combined. I think the coal industry is just fine. Granted, now they have to contend with exportation costs but to say that they don't have a market for their product is not accurate. Of course now they're going to have to compete globally as they now don't have a captive customer or the subsidies from the Feds.

As far as the coal industry covering their people with insurance, if that were the case then why are these coal miners so worried?

Fire fighters, police and prison guards choose that profession. Isn't that in your set of beliefs? That we should have the free will to choose what we do?

The rest of your diatribe is typical conservative tripe much like liberals when they paint all republicans as corporate shills but lets put that to one side. The issue that coal miners are having is that without the ACA their protections get wiped away. There is a specific clause in the ACA protecting these particular workers. If we go back to the way things were which seems to be what Republicans want then these people would essentially be left out in the cold as insurance companies can now deny them coverage.

John
 

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I think you are correct. You have been indoctrinated.
Or maybe you've been indoctrinated to believe that I'm indoctrinated for not believing the same things as you. :surprise:

The areas where coal mining is a career choice, you'll find that it is one of the better paying jobs. The coal miners most likely have insurance through the mining company (I know the iron mining companies up here pay very well and have great benefits), so it is my suspicion that most of the miners have current coverage and won't lose their coverage should Obamacare be eliminated.
In that case, what in the **** does that have to do with what I said? My point was a pretty ****ing simple one, but you cunts are in such a rush to not agree with us liberals on here that even basic ****ing logic is flying over your heads.

Secondly, the idea that your life being more important than your job would preclude fire fighters, police, prison guards, etc. It's a hollow, empty argument.
Hold up, bud. You believe a police officer must put his job before his life?

Hold on a second while I go laugh at that one...


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LOL




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Okay, sorry.

That's got to be one of the most ironic assumptions made given the massive police tactics debate that's been going on in this country the last few years. The whole argument from police and pro-police people has been that they shouldn't have to hesitate to take the life of another to protect their own, even if it turns out that x random guy sure as **** didn't need a bullet to the chest to end the confrontation or save the cop's life. Today's police tactics are designed around the absolute preservation of the officer's life over anything else, and I have no problem with that (as long as "saving one's life" doesn't equate to shooting a black dude in the back for running away).

I'm all for personal freedom, but you need to chill out on whatever ****ing drug you're on and snap back to reality, bud.


The reality is, Obamacare only works for those without a job or those who are dramatically underemployed. Using the argument that elimination of Obamacare will leave coal workers without care while at the very same time wanting coal workers without jobs is in my opinion liberal wish fulfillment. They want to eliminate these people's jobs, get them on the federal government's teat, and then let the Republicans remove the Obamacare so that suddenly they're uninsured, so that they can win their vote back in four years by putting them in the position that they need the government to care for them. It's such a self serving way of thinking it actually makes my head hurt to consider it.
Or maybe they want the legislation they passed to actually stick around. Nah, your conspiracy sounds way more convincing.

---------- Post added at 01:53 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:48 AM ----------

Is this the real life?
 

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You guys amaze me.

So just because a job is dangerous, like coal mining, and you run the risk of death or things like black lung (if you don't wear the proper protective gear for example) then they deserve their jobs to go away, but police, firemen, etc who also run the risk of death due to the dangerous nature of their jobs are just "choosing their career" and the danger is a personal choice?

So you just want to disagree for the point of disagreeing then?
 

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You guys amaze me.

So just because a job is dangerous, like coal mining, and you run the risk of death or things like black lung (if you don't wear the proper protective gear for example) then they deserve their jobs to go away, but police, firemen, etc who also run the risk of death due to the dangerous nature of their jobs are just "choosing their career" and the danger is a personal choice?

So you just want to disagree for the point of disagreeing then?
What the **** are you talking about? Where have I said a job shouldn't be done if it's dangerous? Or that even just coal mining specifically shouldn't be going on because it's dangerous?

You're rationalizing the loss of a very critical healthcare coverage with "well at least they're going to keep their jobs". Are you ****ing serious? Are you a submissive? Do you like to get pegged? Does the idea of being whipped while chained get you off? You certainly seem to enjoy the idea of people getting ****ed over by their employers and/or the government in the name of profit/cutting costs.

**** it. Kill the minimum wage, it'll create jobs! It might be jobs that equate to endentured servitude, but at least they have a ****ing job, am I right?!
 

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What the **** are you talking about? Where have I said a job shouldn't be done if it's dangerous? Or that even just coal mining specifically shouldn't be going on because it's dangerous?

You're rationalizing the loss of a very critical healthcare coverage with "well at least they're going to keep their jobs". Are you ****ing serious? Are you a submissive? Do you like to get pegged? Does the idea of being whipped while chained get you off? You certainly seem to enjoy the idea of people getting ****ed over by their employers and/or the government in the name of profit/cutting costs.

**** it. Kill the minimum wage, it'll create jobs! It might be jobs that equate to endentured servitude, but at least they have a ****ing job, am I right?!
Are you serious?

Mines provide great health insurance, They pretty much have to due to the inherent danger of the job. No one is going to go uninsured if they have a job with a mine. The only people that would be uninsured are the unemployed or those who don't wish to carry insurance.
 

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Are you serious?

Mines provide great health insurance, They pretty much have to due to the inherent danger of the job. No one is going to go uninsured if they have a job with a mine. The only people that would be uninsured are the unemployed or those who don't wish to carry insurance.
Did you even watch the video?

Of course not. You're arrogant and your heightened knowledge of all things politics knew it was full of **** before even bothering, right? ****, man...

The whole issue here is about retirees and widows of former coal miners losing their benefits.
 

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Did you even watch the video?

Of course not. You're arrogant and your heightened knowledge of all things politics knew it was full of **** before even bothering, right? ****, man...

The whole issue here is about retirees and widows of former coal miners losing their benefits.
If their unions are anything at all like the unions in the mines here, then the retirees and widows should have a back end clause to keep their insurance. Hell, our city union has insurance for former employee's entire families once they retire as long as they're not fired.
 

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If their unions are anything at all like the unions in the mines here, then the retirees and widows should have a back end clause to keep their insurance. Hell, our city union has insurance for former employee's entire families once they retire as long as they're not fired.
And it's still flying right over your head...
 

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If their unions are anything at all like the unions in the mines here, then the retirees and widows should have a back end clause to keep their insurance. Hell, our city union has insurance for former employee's entire families once they retire as long as they're not fired.
If memory serves, weren't you one of the ones saying that Unions have no value in todays job market? That they do nothing for their members and should be abolished?

John
 

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If memory serves, weren't you one of the ones saying that Unions have no value in todays job market? That they do nothing for their members and should be abolished?

John
I do think they have too much power but I never called for them to be abolished. I feel membership should be voluntary, and in most cases striking isn't a good way to resolve issues, but I judge each one on a case by case basis.
 

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Discussion Starter #138
We discussed unions before. I can actually see merit in the types of unions that exist in Europe but we don't have that type of union. I have seen so many companies go out of business because of unions. Even when told the gates will be locked and everyone will lose their jobs the union leaders still convince the rank and file to strike. Every single time, after the business is closed, the rank and file say they wouldn't have gone on strike if they had known they'd actually lose their job.
 

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Discussion Starter #140 (Edited)
After reading the first article it appeared that Woolsey was a part-time advisor and only quit after people stopped asking for his advice.

As far as the second article goes... What did you expect? Mexico to voluntarily pay for the wall? The only way to get Mexico to contribute is to redirect the aid we give to them and to impose import tariffs on their goods. Any one with two cents of of common sense knows that "the wall" is a metaphor for border security.

P.S. I am aware that there is a core of Trump supporters that have taken his words literally. I actually know a few. I'm sure they will be disappointed but I don't really care.
 
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