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As far as the second article goes... What did you expect? Mexico to voluntarily pay for the wall? The only way to get Mexico to contribute is to redirect the aid we give to them and to impose import tariffs on their goods. Any one with two cents of of common sense knows that "the wall" is a metaphor for border security.

P.S. I am aware that there is a core of Trump supporters that have taken his words literally. I actually know a few. I'm sure they will be disappointed but I don't really care.
"I will build a great wall -- and nobody builds walls better than me, believe me --and I'll build them very inexpensively. I will build a great, great wall on our southern border, and I will make Mexico pay for that wall. Mark my words." - Donald Trump

I don't see how you could call his statement a metaphor and only symbolism. He has, and still is, advocating building an actual, physical wall. That is what he ran on. To say that it's only a metaphor is to ignore the obvious. He was asked many times by the media if he meant he was actually going to build a wall(this was in reference to reports that the wall would be too expensive) and he said yes and he was going to make Mexico pay for it. He said this repeatedly. Now he's backing away from Mexico paying for the wall(just like his other promise about repealing Obamacare) and Republicans are going along with it by figuring out ways to get an appropriations bill with a Wall funding rider passed to start to build the wall, on the taxpayers dime no less, so to say that it is only a metaphor is stupid and bears out the obvious. You are trying to rationalize his lies much like all the other Trump supporters now that it's time to put up or shut up.

Why would Republicans be crafting an appropriations bill for the construction of the Wall if it was only a metaphor? Even if it was only a metaphor the majority of Trump supporters believe that he is going to actually build a wall. Are you saying that Trump supporters have no common sense?

This is Trumps modus operandi. He promises the world but never realizes those promises. He can do that in the business world because the only fallout would be a lawsuit in which he can throw an army of lawyers at it and settle out of court. Unfortunately this isn't the business world, as I have stated prior, this is public administration which is an entirely different animal. As we speak three of the largest contractors for the tower he built where he hosted the Vet charity have put mechanics liens on the property. Why? Because he failed to pay them the remaining balance of what he owes them. Trump uses Josephs Goebbels tactic of repeating a lie enough times the public will actually start to believe it. This is why he double downs on things he said regardless of the fact that it's obvious he is in the wrong. He feels if he keeps saying it's true enough people will believe it is.

John
 

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missippi roolz
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Yeah, he's definitely not giving any sort of indication that he means anything other than a literal wall. Even if in his own personal mind he doesn't imagine a real wall, he's obviously, intentionally phrasing it in such a way every time he talks about it, that it is going to be a literal wall and his supporters believe this.

So yes, it will ultimately probably be some bullshit policy called "W.A.L.L." or some other moronic acronym the government always comes up with to get people on board with bullshit but Trump has not made one single statement that even begins to hint that he means anything besides a physical barrier at the border of Mexico.
 

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Yeah, he's definitely not giving any sort of indication that he means anything other than a literal wall. Even if in his own personal mind he doesn't imagine a real wall, he's obviously, intentionally phrasing it in such a way every time he talks about it, that it is going to be a literal wall and his supporters believe this.

So yes, it will ultimately probably be some bullshit policy called "W.A.L.L." or some other moronic acronym the government always comes up with to get people on board with bullshit but Trump has not made one single statement that even begins to hint that he means anything besides a physical barrier at the border of Mexico.
Didn't we discuss the wall previous in which most of the conservatives on here talked about the merits of how a physical wall would stop, or at least majorly deter, illegal immigration? I would imagine that if you're going to put that much energy into talking about it you actually believe that a physical wall was going to be erected if Trump was elected. So what did Eagle say about common sense?

John
 

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missippi roolz
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Didn't we discuss the wall previous in which most of the conservatives on here talked about the merits of how a physical wall would stop, or at least majorly deter, illegal immigration? I would imagine that if you're going to put that much energy into talking about it you actually believe that a physical wall was going to be erected if Trump was elected. So what did Eagle say about common sense?

John
LOL, I don't recall. Doesn't seem like a very "Eagle" thing to say that he supports Trump building a physical wall. I don't doubt at least somebody on here supports the idea though. Kinda silly since they already have god-knows how many tunnels bypassing barriers already.
 

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LOL, I don't recall. Doesn't seem like a very "Eagle" thing to say that he supports Trump building a physical wall. I don't doubt at least somebody on here supports the idea though. Kinda silly since they already have god-knows how many tunnels bypassing barriers already.
Eagle never actually said he supported building a physical wall. His main thrust in voting for Trump was to keep the SCOTUS with a conservative majority. What he didn't take into account is all the other BS, like the Wall that we are currently discussing, that goes along with that vote that we are all going to have to endure with Trump in office.

I will admit that there are a few things, VERY few things, that I agree with Trump on but, regardless, I will eschew those views for an actual adult in the WH.

John
 

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Discussion Starter #147
I want border security. Primarily I want to stop the flow of illegal drugs from coming across the border but I also want to stop (or slow significantly) the flow of illegal aliens into the country. Border security may include a wall or it may include some sort of electronic measures, an electronic wall. I think we should allow the experts to determine what works best depending upon terrain. Trump has said the same thing. He specifically mentioned no wall in mountains and increased border guards. I never in any way thought we would be building a Great Wall of China type wall along our southern border.

Yes, I know that when he had thousands of faithful shouting, "Build a Wall" he would get caught up in the rhetoric. But it really doesn't matter which side of the conservative/liberal fence you are on rhetoric makes bad policy.

I also want illegal criminals kicked out of the country. Catch and release might work well when fishing but it makes for pretty shoddy police work and I think cutting federal funding to sanctuary cities is a good idea. Yes, I am a constitutionalist and I want limited federal government but the US Constitution specifically gives the common defense and immigration to the federal government.

We are not going to kick all illegals out of the country. Trump said that at first but when his campaign became more serious he backed off of it. He and Pence have both talked about border security first, kicking illegal criminals out second, and then determining what to do with the rest. Marco Rubio said the same thing in the debates. He said that because border security was never implemented last time the public is demanding that it comes first this time.

I am sure that in the end 98% (my rough guess) of the illegals will be allowed to remain here. I have said this before but it would be insane to do otherwise. You might remember the Cuban kid in Florida whose mother died. His father was still in Cuba and he wanted his son back. Reporters televised body armored police pulling a crying struggling child from the outreached arms of his crying relatives to send him back to Cuba. Now imagine that image on television 15 million times as citizen children are separated from their illegal parents. No one in Congress will ever support that.

What will happen in the end is that the illegals will have to register, pay a fine and be given legal residence. I don't support citizenship but if they are given a path to citizenship that path should be a long one.

Perhaps I know these things because I'm retired and have watched most of Trump's (and Clinton's) speeches. I also watched all of the debates (Republican, Democrat and Libertarian). I didn't get my information from edited sound bites or biased commentary.
 

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I want border security. Primarily I want to stop the flow of illegal drugs from coming across the border but I also want to stop (or slow significantly) the flow of illegal aliens into the country. Border security may include a wall or it may include some sort of electronic measures, an electronic wall. I think we should allow the experts to determine what works best depending upon terrain. Trump has said the same thing. He specifically mentioned no wall in mountains and increased border guards. I never in any way thought we would be building a Great Wall of China type wall along our southern border.
YOU may not have but a "YUGE" percentage of his supporters did. CHIEENAH!(Just thought I'd throw that one in there for good measure!):wink2:

He mentioned no wall in the mountain only after the media skewered him on the cost of the wall. The cost per yard of fence on flat land vs mountainous terrain should tell you why he switched it up not because this was a well thought out plan from it's inception.

As far as border guards Obama doubled the amount throughout his terms in office and, according to conservatives, illegal immigration just got worse. Throwing money or numbers at a problem is exactly why the government is so poor at running programs. A smarter system is what's needed not more border guards. We have enough border guards already. Rubio spoke of a better tracking and verification system. This is an excellent way of pushing down illegal immigration without significantly increasing the government payroll.

Yes, I know that when he had thousands of faithful shouting, "Build a Wall" he would get caught up in the rhetoric. But it really doesn't matter which side of the conservative/liberal fence you are on rhetoric makes bad policy.
You're continuing to rationalize this mans lies. It's one thing to get caught up at a rally but he has double, triple, quadrupled down on a physical wall outside of his rallies so to rationalize it as "getting caught up in the rhetoric" is simply an attempt to excuse his hypocritical behavior.

We are not going to kick all illegals out of the country. Trump said that at first but when his campaign became more serious he backed off of it. He and Pence have both talked about border security first, kicking illegal criminals out second, and then determining what to do with the rest. Marco Rubio said the same thing in the debates. He said that because border security was never implemented last time the public is demanding that it comes first this time.
So Trump disparages Rubio for his Gang of 8 association yet absconds the G8 immigration plan Rubio and other members of congress put together. Apparently his initial plan, which attracted so many of his base, is now being watered down to the same plan that the establishment originally proposed. That same establishment that was pariahed by Trump and his followers for not coming up with any workable solutions.

I am sure that in the end 98% (my rough guess) of the illegals will be allowed to remain here. I have said this before but it would be insane to do otherwise.
What you're talking about is essentially amnesty. The very thing Trump campaigned against.

You might remember the Cuban kid in Florida whose mother died. His father was still in Cuba and he wanted his son back. Reporters televised body armored police pulling a crying struggling child from the outreached arms of his crying relatives to send him back to Cuba. Now imagine that image on television 15 million times as citizen children are separated from their illegal parents. No one in Congress will ever support that.

What will happen in the end is that the illegals will have to register, pay a fine and be given legal residence. I don't support citizenship but if they are given a path to citizenship that path should be a long one.
Trump floated the idea that children of illegal immigrants should not be allowed to stay in the country. What you are saying is what liberals have been saying from the start. Are you telling me that all this fuss and in the end the liberal plan gets enacted anyways? What a massive waste of resources......


John
 

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Discussion Starter #150
I'm not trying to rationalize his lies. He's a game show host who through some unfathomable set of circumstances became President. There were too many Republican candidates and his tough rhetoric attracted 10 million more people (one-third more) to the primary than ever before. Then after 8 years of policies that actually harmed rural America the Democrats ran perhaps the worst possible candidate. Even though Trump was filling stadiums with his fiery rhetoric I still didn't think he had a chance to win. Yet he did.

But fiery rhetoric makes poor policy. He appears to be learning that. I have no intention of condemning someone who appears to be learning. I hope he learns a great deal more.
 

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So we can both agree that this nation will now be lead by a game show host?

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Discussion Starter #153

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That is all you got out of my comment?
I already watched your post unfold on CNN. No comment necessary.

But fiery rhetoric makes poor policy. He appears to be learning that. I have no intention of condemning someone who appears to be learning. I hope he learns a great deal more.
Too bad the guy that's in the White House now didn't get that same treatment.

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I already watched your post unfold on CNN. No comment necessary.



Too bad the guy that's in the White House now didn't get that same treatment.

John
THe guy in now didn't back off when he learned things wouldn't work, he doubled down.
 

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Discussion Starter #156
THe guy in now didn't back off when he learned things wouldn't work, he doubled down.
His view of a compromise is do it his way. If not he will rule through executive action.
 

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Man imo the social and political environment was just weird in late 2008 early 2009. The way some of the opposing politicians reacted to President Obama on the media and what not and as far as the social environment it was just smh.. Some ppl were beyond happy for various reasons but man it was like some weird pot was stirred here. I had just returned I was gone for Years and some guy yelled at me for voting for President Obama in January 2009 on post at Ft Hood as I'm walking in with a walking cane. Didn't even vote for anyone back then I just returned to the damn country after leaving in 2006. Emotions seemed to be very high on either end politically and socially back then.

Right now seems like some quite a few ppl knew and know Trump is a go with the the mood of the room type of guy and that's not a good thing at all. People that opposed him just months ago are no doubt defending him like an older brother now and that's odd to see and that is what it is. But quite a few ppl have said they just wanna see how he and this majority governs in the next few or so years. I haven't seen that crazy and blatant disrespect that I seen when I came back in Dec 2008 on the political and social side. You see it here and there but back then and years after that **** was ridiculous even though some will refuse to admit it bc they played blind to it all then even when numerous ppl would point it out.

Correct me if I'm wrong but just recently didn't the Gov of Florida contact Trump and Pence instead of president Obama about the recent events down there? He is still the sitting president and anyone in their right mind knows it's a bit of slap in the face to do that or just flat out disrespect but quite a few things considered over the years dating back to 2009 even ppl wagging a damn finger in his face or blurting out (you lie)during his speaches none of it comes as a surprise.

Some ppl have discovered new skills of being a contortionist the way they now bend and twist themselves into a knot to somehow defend or rationalize some of this guys mess ,backpedaling, what's found out to be lies and move at every turn. I would say it's borderline funny but it's really not it's balancing on the sad side imo. To each is own though we all have our own mirror to face. I guess being a soldier for 10+ years I know what its like to have those marching orders and not much of a say so you just have to move out and execute I guess when it comes to party line mess some ppl close ranks and defend it no matter what.
 
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