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TFS Headed 5.4 Swap

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Discussion starter · #21 ·
Flat tops with 38cc heads and stock deck clearance + stock HG yields 11.5:1 CR. My big issue is that where I'm moving to there aren't really any E85 stations.
 
#22 ·
StangAddiction said:
Flat tops with 38cc heads and stock deck clearance + stock HG yields 11.5:1 CR. My big issue is that where I'm moving to, there aren't really any E85 stations.
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You sure that's only 11.5:1?

I wouldn't move then.
 
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Discussion starter · #23 ·
Yeah the massive deck clearance on the 5.4 kills the CR a bit compared to a 4.6 with the same parts. I believe a 4.6 with 38cc heads and flat tops would be in the mid 13s for CR.

Here's a 5.4 bored .020in over with stock deck, decked .010, and decked .020. Shaving some of the deck off definitely helps bring the CR up a bit. Its closer to 11.6 actually. I estimated a little low.

Stock Deck:


.010 off:


.020 off:
 
#24 ·
Oh ok. Didn't realize that will the 5.4. I knew the deck was taller but that's good to know about the CR.
 
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#25 ·
StangAddiction said:
The stages are modeled for a 4.6 and I hate the term "stage" when it comes to cams because it's somewhat inconsistent between cam manufacturers .
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Yeah I agree with the stage classification. It reminds me when I was kid and instead of stages the terms were 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 and full cam.
 
#26 ·
I don't know why everybody is shocked to find out about the trickflow heads needing different cams. That information has been out for quite a few years. Nick Mckinney was the first I heard report it shortly after the heads were released. MHS has Trickflow specific cams out for almost as long as the heads have been available.

jivepepper said:
Yeah I agree with the stage classification. It reminds me when I was kid and instead of stages the terms were 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 and full cam.
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Yep that was the way it was when I first got into build cars. The stages came from import ricers we use to make fun of. I think it's funny how some of the things are showing up in the domestic seen. Like black wheels, lowered cars when chrome was the in thing ricer would pull off thier hub caps and paint the wheels black. One more thing go fast stickers use to be a hotrod thing.
 
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#27 ·
I agree Sonic. It was news pretty quickly after the heads cams out. How people are finding out now is very surprising.
 
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#28 ·
StangAddiction said:
The dyno I posted was with an HPS intake, 44cc heads, 10.8:1 compression, MHS Stage 3 TFS cams, JBA shorty headers

I know there was a guy on Corral with a Crown Vic who swapped a 5.4 with TFS heads and an edelbrock intake that he had widened. I'm waiting to see how that turns out. He decked the block .120" to remove the massive deck clearance rather than getting 5.4 specific pistons. Seems like a lot to me, not sure how much that would affect the intake ports lining up. Doesn't make much of a difference though I suppose, as his manifold was modified specific to his setup. His build has slowed down significantly as of late. The edelbrock is definitely something to consider in the future, but I'm going to be using the HPS for the time being.

Also, apparently guys on are managing to fit Pacesetter or merely by using K-member spacers and bending the outlets to match up with the mid pipe. Apparently, the theory is that any long tubes that dont route the steeting shaft between pipes can work this way. Heard anything of this?



Will definitely be going with some na_svt spec'd cams. He knows his stuff.
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I'm not sure, I got Bassani mid-legnths that I'm going to try to make fit but they wrap around the steering so who knows. I probably won't get to this car anytime soon.
 
Discussion starter · #29 ·
jivepepper said:
Yeah I agree with the stage classification. It reminds me when I was kid and instead of stages the terms were 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 and full cam.
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That's even more confusing to me. I suppose the term "stages" is for the lesser-informed who wouldn't be able to select a good cam for their car just by looking at the specs. That's the only logical explanation I can come up with.

69MUSTANGCOUPE393CID said:
I'm not sure, I got Bassani mid-legnths that I'm going to try to make fit but they wrap around the steering so who knows. I probably won't get to this car anytime soon.
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I believe MM makes a narrower steering shaft than factory that is supposed to be very good quality. Also, if you have the tools and material, you could always modify the steering shaft if you have to. There isn't too much involved in yielding a custom steering shaft from what I understand.
 
#30 ·
StangAddiction said:
That's even more confusing to me. I suppose the term "stages" is for the lesser-informed who wouldn't be able to select a good cam for their car just by looking at the specs. That's the only logical explanation I can come up with.



I believe MM makes a narrower steering shaft than factory that is supposed to be very good quality. Also, if you have the tools and material, you could always modify the steering shaft if you have to. There isn't too much involved in yielding a custom steering shaft from what I understand.
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Yeah someone makes one, maybe flaming river? But the thing is astronomically expensive from what I remember. I'll go that route if I have to but I'm going to test fit the headers first.

Here's the one you were thinking of. Pretty pricey.

http://www.brothersperformance.com/...2BRCFl4Lb2NTJttEBEiQAmj2tbV3yGa05_d5lR34af7oeKqalzujQzOCu-xkAaSkhqOcaAhYt8P8HAQ
 
#33 ·
I dont know if anyone else has already suggested it but the 03-04 cobra shaft is an upgrade over ours. It has a poly lower bushing so its more responsive. Now thinner Im not sure about that. Oh and you can pick one up for about 100 bucks on ebay.
 
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Discussion starter · #34 · (Edited)
69MUSTANGCOUPE393CID said:
Still a nice chunk of change. Does it really make that much of a difference in steering? I'm not going to bother with it unless it will help my header install. I've already pissed away enough money into this car haha.
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I went through a lot of pics and it doesnt appear to be any thinner than stock where it counts (header clearance). As for myself, I'll probably just space the k-member and user pacesetter or flowtech long tubes. That seems to be working for guys over on Corral.

Here's a link showing the two shafts side by side:
Mike's Garage

the part just before the u-joint toward the left side of the picture is where we'd experience clearance issues. If anything it looks slightly thicker.

07gtS197 said:
I dont know if anyone else has already suggested it but the 03-04 cobra shaft is an upgrade over ours. It has a poly lower bushing so its more responsive. Now thinner Im not sure about that. Oh and you can pick one up for about 100 bucks on ebay.
Click to expand...
What I would like to do is take the factory shaft and replace the rubber rag joint with a drilled metal cylinder. I did this on my 240sx back in high school (except I used a drilled hockey puck), and it made a very noticeable difference.

Edit: I misspoke on the clearance location with the shaft. Updated to correct.
 
#35 ·
If you end up doing it put me on the list for one too lol. Thats actually a really good idea, if you made a thread I bet people would flock to them.
 
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#36 ·
StangAddiction said:
I went through a lot of pics and it doesnt appear to be any thinner than stock where it counts (header clearance). As for myself, I'll probably just space the k-member and user pacesetter or flowtech long tubes. That seems to be working for guys over on Corral.

Here's a link showing the two shafts side by side:
Mike's Garage

the part just before the u-joint toward the left side of the picture is where we'd experience clearance issues. If anything it looks slightly thicker.



What I would like to do is take the factory shaft and replace the rubber rag joint with a drilled metal cylinder. I did this on my 240sx back in high school (except I used a drilled hockey puck), and it made a very noticeable difference.

Edit: I misspoke on the clearance location with the shaft. Updated to correct.
Click to expand...
I'm not following you on the clearance part on that shaft. Do you mean the middle joint?

Also I thought about K-member spacers, but I hate how that lifts the front fenders and gives that nasty front wheel gap. I've contacted a few companies about getting custom engine mounts done like what the 00 Cobra R had, but they said they don't see the demand so will not make them.
 
Discussion starter · #37 ·
69MUSTANGCOUPE393CID said:
I'm not following you on the clearance part on that shaft. Do you mean the middle joint?

Also I thought about K-member spacers, but I hate how that lifts the front fenders and gives that nasty front wheel gap. I've contacted a few companies about getting custom engine mounts done like what the 00 Cobra R had, but they said they don't see the demand so will not make them.
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Clearance issues will be at the upper half of the shaft just before the U-joint. Sorry for the confusion. I always confuse which side of the shaft connects to the steering wheel and which side connects to the rack.

As far as the mounts, you could always get some steel plate and have a machine shop bend the necessary angles on a brake. The issue with drop mounts will be with the oil pan clearing the k-member. There already isn't much room between the two as is. If you're using an aftermarket k-member, this may not be an issue.
 
#38 ·
StangAddiction said:
Clearance issues will be at the upper half of the shaft just before the U-joint. Sorry for the confusion. I always confuse which side of the shaft connects to the steering wheel and which side connects to the rack.

As far as the mounts, you could always get some steel plate and have a machine shop bend the necessary angles on a brake. The issue with drop mounts will be with the oil pan clearing the k-member. There already isn't much room between the two as is. If you're using an aftermarket k-member, this may not be an issue.
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Got ya. I was planning on keeping my stock K-member for now to save some money and do mods down the road, so hopefully it's not a problem.

Far as the engine mounts, my car is mostly a street car and I've already got everything solid in the suspension. I really was hoping to get away with at least poly engine mounts and not make them solid as a rock haha.

I'm going to try to get my mid tubes to fit header wise. I'd love long tubes but the fact that changing a clutch is almost impossible with long tubes, I'm trying to avoid them. Plus my ground clearance will be better and it's harder for cops to look under the car and actually see headers. Granted with a 5.4 there would be slightly more space between them, but I'm sure it's still hard to get the trans out the bottom.
 
Discussion starter · #39 ·
69MUSTANGCOUPE393CID said:
Got ya. I was planning on keeping my stock K-member for now to save some money and do mods down the road, so hopefully it's not a problem.

Far as the engine mounts, my car is mostly a street car and I've already got everything solid in the suspension. I really was hoping to get away with at least poly engine mounts and not make them solid as a rock haha.

I'm going to try to get my mid tubes to fit header wise. I'd love long tubes but the fact that changing a clutch is almost impossible with long tubes, I'm trying to avoid them. Plus my ground clearance will be better and it's harder for cops to look under the car and actually see headers. Granted with a 5.4 there would be slightly more space between them, but I'm sure it's still hard to get the trans out the bottom.
Click to expand...
I got some clarification from a guy I know with a lightning swap. All header clearance issues will be on the part of the shaft between rag joint and the U-joint. I uploaded 2 pictures i found on google to show what I'm talking about. I apologize for the confusion again. I've been all over the place with my wording. Lol
 

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#40 ·
StangAddiction said:
I got some clarification from a guy I know with a lightning swap. All header clearance issues will be on the part of the shaft between rag joint and the U-joint. I uploaded 2 pictures i found on google to show what I'm talking about. I apologize for the confusion again. I've been all over the place with my wording. Lol
Click to expand...
haha ok, that's what I figured from the start but yes that makes much more sense. I read some guy slotted his engine mounts to drop his engine 3/16's of an inch. Not sure how that would work out but I might look into it.
 
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