Timing.

Fluffy The Rhino · Apr 19, 2009

So, my car has been making some lovely noises for a few months. Started off as the classic TOB going bad sound. Later on it progressed into a rattling metallic noise.

Yesterday, we got the engine opened up, and this is what we find laying just above the oil pan (pulled out and pic taken):

Finger pointing to where that piece of plastic SHOULD BE:

Even better shot of where the rail SHOULD BE, also note the MISSING PIECE OF METAL:

New crap on:

Now, here's the problem.... we ran out of daylight... and we're not sure that the timing is right, because it's possible that broken rail might have caused the chain to skip a tooth.

So, does anyone have any pictures of what it should look like? I've seen quite a few diagrams, but I'm still drunk, and all the half assed drawings I've looked at are giving me a really bad headache.

BTW, that missing piece of metal is laying in my oil pan somewhere. Along with a small piece of the plastic guide rail. So, I'm thinking I might be investing in a new tubular K-member here soon since I'm going to have to drop the current one just to get the effing oil pan out.

99blkcobra · Apr 19, 2009

my tensioiner is broken i dont know if the timing is the same but i thinkg i might open it up monday or thursday, ill get some pics

SWEET2KSTANG · Apr 19, 2009

you needing just a pic of the set up or diagram of timing it? its not too bad to time them, more time consuming more than anything.

Fluffy The Rhino · Apr 19, 2009

Didn't realize how crappy the angles were with these pics when I was taking them. Goddamnit : D

We're trying to get an understanding of where the dots should be lined up. I circled them in the picture below. The one on the driver's side is covered (the top dot at least). But the bottom dot is visible so you can kind of gauge where it is in relation to the other side. We're a little confused with the actual position because the diagrams say one thing and the clock position says another.

A picture of what it should look like would be handy as hell...

SWEET2KSTANG · Apr 19, 2009

you using stock cams?

99blkcobra · Apr 19, 2009

i think he is

SWEET2KSTANG · Apr 19, 2009

the otc tool kit has a set of cam locks that will only allow the cams to go 2 ways. it will be either the wron way or the right way. the cam gears will point out at 10 o'clock and 1 o'clock if i remember right. the little slots in the back of the cams will be strait out off the heads.

Fluffy The Rhino · Apr 19, 2009

I'm gonna have to look at it again to see where it's at

SWEET2KSTANG · Apr 19, 2009

you using the locks that go in the back of the cams?

Fluffy The Rhino · Apr 19, 2009

I have the tool.... We used the parts that hold everything in place, but ended up taking it off because the dots didn't look like they lined up where they were supposed to when we got everything on according to the diagrams.

I think I know what you're talking about. I'll have to see what we've got over at my friend's house when I get back over there.

SWEET2KSTANG · Apr 19, 2009

there are the locks that lock the smooth part in the middle of the cams and there are the locks that go in the back side as well. ford cams have the slots on the back of the cams that allows the locking tool to be used.

wraitherx · Apr 19, 2009

hey fluffy, what kind of sound was it making? mine makes a rattling sound when i start it up until it warms up... about a 10 seconds of a little rattle then it goes away. it seems to do it only when its been sitting for awhile, if i drive it all day its fine until i let her sit for another couple of days. sorry to thread jack just being curious.

Fluffy The Rhino · Apr 19, 2009

No worries wraith : )

I just posted something similar on the Mach registry. This is the sound it made at startup:

It's not the most audible sound in the world in the video. But in person, you definitely know it's there. It sounds like a metallic rattling sound. I wish I had a better video but I don't.

I'm going back over to my friend's place today to work on this some more. I'll get some more pictures of the guide rail which is in pieces as well.

The noise progressed over the past 4 or 5 months... from a chirping sound to the rattling sound. At first it didn't do it at startup. It would chirp at around 2000 RPM to start with. After a while, the chirp got worse and it would do it at lower RPMs occasionally. One day the chirp turned into something worse, not exactly sure how to describe it. A few weeks later it went to the rattling sound and began doing it at startup. The chirp would occasionally make it's little appearance at idle when this all first started.

Also to note... originally it was believed to be coming from the transmission at first because the noise was traveling through the engine, into the headers, and down toward the tranny. Figured out it wasn't by listening with the heat shield off and the midpipe off. We used a giant threaded bolt to listen up front and narrowed it down to the timing cover on the driver's side a couple weeks ago.

So, the next thing I have to deal with once all is back in place is getting the pieces of the guide out of my oil pan. I doubt I have to worry about the pieces getting sucked up or anything, as I've driven the car for quite a while like this with the only problem being the noise. But I really don't want to chance leaving it in there too long and press my luck.

Fluffy The Rhino · Apr 19, 2009

SWEET2KSTANG said:
there are the locks that lock the smooth part in the middle of the cams and there are the locks that go in the back side as well. ford cams have the slots on the back of the cams that allows the locking tool to be used.

Thanks man... hoping the fresh start this morning will get things going today. The alcohol is finally wearing off.

Reps : D

wraitherx · Apr 19, 2009

cool, im gonna have to check mine out as ive been told on SVTP that it just the chains being loose cause of the cold and its been sitting but then when it warms up no more sound. ive heard of people having their cam bolts come loose or even break off landing in the tensioner valley. im gonna try and get a vid up of the sound so you can take a listen to it. im hoping not as i know its gonna be alot of work (feeling lazy) to get all the parts off (especially the DS valve cover).

but, better to have piece of mind knowing there isnt something sitting in your pan that can cause major F&@#ed up things to happen.

wraitherx · Apr 19, 2009

alright so here is mine,

is this sound similar to what yours was making? Thanks for the help bro, REPS.

MustangMatt96GT · Apr 19, 2009

Take your chains and lay them so both sides are next to each other. There will be the two end links on the chain that are perpendicular to the rest of the chain. Mark those two links on both chains. Those are the marks on the chains. Now just line them up with the marks on the cam gear and the crank gear, and it will be just fine. Make sure to do the drivers side first.

99blkcobra · Apr 19, 2009

check the tensioner mine was like that

Fluffy The Rhino · Apr 20, 2009

Sounds similar to the noise mine was making, but a little different.

Sorry for not getting back sooner... I've been at it almost all day with the car. We got it back together and running. I'm leaving at my friend's house this week to take care of minor things... going to bleed the brakes and do a few other things. But, the engine is happy. I'm thinking it's time to start replacing the pulleys and crap the serpentine belt rides on. A couple things are making some noise in there. They've been making a little noise for some time, but now that the really bad sound is gone, these things are now audible once again. Annoying.

I'm absolutely beat to **** tired. I'm going to take myself a shower, maybe soak in the tub for a little bit. I painted my valve covers and timing cover black. Absolute worst paint job on the planet. But hey, it's something different.

Wraith, odds are, you will at the very least need to replace a tensioner. Here's the deal though... you don't want to just replace one... buy the whole timing kit and replace everything. Don't know how many miles you have on your car, but I've noticed a few people having failures under the timing cover (various parts) lately. Probably because many of us are reaching the same age/mileage in our cars. I could have gotten away with just replacing one guide rail, but would have another failure within a few thousand miles.

Here's something to bear in mind:

Timing chain rebuild pics - 2003-04 Mach 1 Registry Owners Club

From what I understand, the noise this guy's car was making turned out to be a damper. I thought it MIGHT be possible that mine could have the same problem, so I bought one. Found out it wasn't the problem, but hey, I have a new one on it now. These lovely sounds can all be very deceiving. Just better to be safe than sorry.

BTW, if you are going to change out your timing kit, or anything in there for that matter, make sure you buy a cam tool set to hold things in place.

C MY 4D · Apr 20, 2009

MustangMatt96GT said:
Take your chains and lay them so both sides are next to each other. There will be the two end links on the chain that are perpendicular to the rest of the chain. Mark those two links on both chains. Those are the marks on the chains. Now just line them up with the marks on the cam gear and the crank gear, and it will be just fine. Make sure to do the drivers side first.

What he said but from I can tell with the pictures the dyed links are still visible.

Timing.

Fluffy The Rhino

99blkcobra

SWEET2KSTANG

Fluffy The Rhino

SWEET2KSTANG

99blkcobra

SWEET2KSTANG

Fluffy The Rhino

SWEET2KSTANG

Fluffy The Rhino

SWEET2KSTANG

wraitherx

Fluffy The Rhino

Fluffy The Rhino

wraitherx

wraitherx

MustangMatt96GT

99blkcobra

Fluffy The Rhino

C MY 4D

Top Contributors this Month

Recommended Communities