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Cgross609

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Discussion starter · #1 · (Edited)
Any suggestions on what would be a decent cam for a dual plug 93? I was thinking maybe one of crane cams really mild ones with only around .400 lift. Just so i could maintain some fuel economy as well as boost my power. Any suggestions on a healthy cam for the 2.3? Racer Walsh stage 1? I think with those you need fair bit of head porting as well as shaving... Just to keep CR high.

http://www.cranecams.com/188-189.pdf
The first one on the list is the one i'm looking at... Anyone know the pricing??
 
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#2 ·
I posted this before, but no one PM'd me about this.

I found the best source for Roller cams from a very, very reputable cam grinder; Elgin cams.

Who are they? Dema Elgin is nothing short of a genius.

He makes his own camshaft designs with the aid of computers. Some of his costumers include; General Motors, Ford Motor Company, Nissan Corporation, Zakspeed International, Porsche Motor Sports, and "Winston Cup" engine builders. He has the largest percentage of cams used at "Mid-Ohio" from GT-1 to Formula-V. In his spare time, Dema travels the country giving speeches on cams and camshafts. He also teaches Automotive Technology Classes at DeAnza and Skyline Colleges.

He charges only $225.00 for a brand new roller cam outright plus insurance and shipping.

He sells a grind which is very close to the A-237, which is perfect for 2.3 street motors.

(110 lobe centers) 226int 234exh @.050" valve lift avg=.420"

He has lots of other profiles. He works through e-mails. Don't waste his time.

You are dumb if you buy a cam from anyone else..:eek:

http://www.elgincams.com/
 
#4 ·
OHC230 said:
He charges only $225.00 for a brand new roller cam outright plus insurance and shipping.
http://www.elgincams.com/
Click to expand...
Thats a great price for a roller... since i won't bug him I'll ask u:

Is he using a new blank or is this reground and nitrided from a flat tappet core?

Are lifter shims or valve lash caps gonna be needed?
 
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#5 ·
Is he using a new blank or is this reground and nitrided from a flat tappet core?


Yes, he uses brand new roller blanks. He told me that he buys the blanks in batches of 25 or 50.


Are lifter shims or valve lash caps gonna be needed?


I didn't ask him, but your stock roller cam has a base circle diameter of 1.181". To pull the extra lift out of the cam, the base circle diameter will drop to 1.160". This is still within a reasonable limit for the stock lash adjusters at just .021"/2 difference, but that doesn't mean that you wouldn't check to see if you have optimal lift / lash adjustment.

One of the reasons the .420" lift cams are so popular, is because you don't have to mess with anything and you can still use stock valve springs. It's a drop in deal.
 
#6 · (Edited)
OHC230 said:
Yes, he uses brand new roller blanks. He told me that he buys the blanks in batches of 25 or 50.


Are lifter shims or valve lash caps gonna be needed?

I didn't ask him, but your stock roller cam has a base circle diameter of 1.181". To pull the extra lift out of the cam, the base circle diameter will drop to 1.160". This is still within a reasonable limit for the stock lash adjusters at just .021"/2 difference, but that doesn't mean that you wouldn't check to see if you have optimal lift / lash adjustment.

One of the reasons the .420" lift cams are so popular, is because you don't have to mess with anything and you can still use stock valve springs. It's a drop in deal.
Click to expand...
A guess on the popularity of .420 lift cams is the new blanks that are available cannot offer enough lobe size to grind anything more than a .420 on a stock base circle.

I'd then guess the base circle has to shrink if you wanted a lift thats greater than .420 (either that or everyone is following fords lead with the A237 cam so not to have to worry about valve geometry, spring bind, or valve float on stock springs).

On zetecs with the bucket style tappets, we use lash caps with a reduced base circle to up the lift of the cams. I've had more than one customer call me up thinking their hi lift cam was less lift than stock because the lobes were not taller lol.


P.S. he buys 25-50 2.3 cam blanks at a time?? did he really say that?? his credibility index just dropped a point or two based on that comment.
 
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#7 ·
A guess on the popularity of .420 lift cams is the new blanks that are available cannot offer enough lobe size to grind anything more than a .420 on a stock base circle.
Not the case here.



I'd then guess the base circle has to shrink if you wanted a lift that’s greater than .420 (either that or everyone is following fords lead with the A237 cam so not to have to worry about valve geometry, spring bind, or valve float on stock springs).
That is correct.
 
#9 ·
That is a good safe lift to use and with the right timing events; the "A-237" type, roller cam profiles have proven to be some of the most flexible in terms of power and day to day drivability. I have built N/A engines with over 175 HP with them.








:yes
 
Discussion starter · #10 ·
"That is a good safe lift to use and with the right timing events; the "A-237" type, roller cam profiles have proven to be some of the most flexible in terms of power and day to day drivability. I have built N/A engines with over 175 HP with them."

And with the A-237, you dont have to change anything? Its a direct bolt in basically? What sort of hp gains could one expect from a 420 lift cam? Did the A-237 have a significant amount of overlap that one will have to compensate for? Like by increasing Compression ratio?
 
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#11 ·
The Elgin and A-237 cams (basically identical) both work well with your stock compression ratio and no, you don't have to change anything else. As for power gains, I have tested a couple of 90's Ranger trucks with just the cam and exhaust mods. I saw flywheel HP outputs between 130-135 HP.
 
Discussion starter · #12 ·
Just wondering, what is the stock camshaft dimensions for a N/A 2.3? Is it a relatively small cam? I've always wondered but forgot to ask... HAPPY NEW YEAR! lol. This is how i spend my time...
 
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#13 · (Edited)
Stock cam: Is it a relatively small cam?
I guessing by small you mean low lift and short valve duration, yes I would say it is. It has only .355" of valve lift and a fairly wide lobe separation angle, limiting its ability to work at higher engine speeds.
 
#14 ·
P.S. he buys 25-50 2.3 cam blanks at a time?? Did he really say that?? His credibility index just dropped a point or two based on that comment.
Mr. Elgin mentioned that Crane, Comp cams and Walsh, all get their cam blanks from the same supplier as his shop and they offer substantial discounts for orders of more than a certain quantity. I may have misconstrued something here. No one I know of or can find, including myself, has had a single issue with any of his cams, or with Mr. Elgin’s work, which he stands behind. I honestly believe in his products and as long as he grinds cams, I will continue to use his services. He is currently grinding a cam for me right now, for a customer’s car. Until recently, I had no idea that he was blowing out these (A-237 type) cams for just $225.00.
What a deal. The same cam, made from the same blank by Crane, sells for $405.00 or $363.00 from Walsh.
 
#15 ·
OHC230 said:
P.S. he buys 25-50 2.3 cam blanks at a time?? Did he really say that?? His credibility index just dropped a point or two based on that comment.
Mr. Elgin mentioned that Crane, Comp cams and Walsh, all get their cam blanks from the same supplier as his shop and they offer substantial discounts for orders of more than a certain quantity. I may have misconstrued something here. No one I know of or can find, including myself, has had a single issue with any of his cams, or with Mr. Elgin’s work, which he stands behind. I honestly believe in his products and as long as he grinds cams, I will continue to use his services. He is currently grinding a cam for me right now, for a customer’s car. Until recently, I had no idea that he was blowing out these (A-237 type) cams for just $225.00.
What a deal. The same cam, made from the same blank by Crane, sells for $405.00 or $363.00 from Walsh.
Click to expand...
I have no doubt he's buying new blanks from the same guys as crane, crower, walsh, web et al. The company that sells the blanks has a sales office down here in so cal... I met the guy both at web cam and at the rebuilders show in las vegas many moons ago. The blanks usually cost around $80-90 each, so him charging $225 sounds about right once you include the grinders labor and materials.

I do have strong doubt he's ever bought 25-50 2.3 OHC Ford cams at one sitting. Even Web Cams, who grind all of Esslinger's cams for all those racing heads they make don't buy that many blanks at once.
 
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#16 ·
"I do have strong doubt he's ever bought 25-50 2.3 OHC Ford cams at one sitting. Even Web Cams, who grind all of Esslinger's cams for all those racing heads they make don't buy that many blanks at once."
I got the impression from him, that he is suppling these to other companies, but can't really tell me, because it violates some business ethics/ deal. I am not going to pry into it because, his is a bridge that I don't want to burn. The bottom line is, if you grab a cam from him, it will work with your stock fuel system, last forever and you can still pass your smog check with it and you can pick up some honest HP with it. I don't know if you remember, but before I installed my Esslinger head, I used this same cam grind with a ported iron head, to make 177 HP and over 180 lb ft of fun! I would love to see you do the same.

Image
 
#17 ·
like your port imagary there OHC...

1. since this is a cam question thread, does anyone have a 92 or 93 mustang factory shop manual? i am looking for the cam specs listed in there. my 1991 manual is a misprint in the cam spec department... ford decided to keep the slider cam specs in there lol.
so far i have all the slider cam info on early and late 2.3 thanks to a 79, 87, and 90 service manual, but need the roller cam info now too.

2. it seems that valve lift is useless on these cam specs offered since nobody seems to agree on the rocker ratio and uses 1.6, 1.64, and 1.7 depending on their mood, so I am trying to do a spec sheet based on lobe lift and not "theoretical" valve lift.

why?? i'm gonna make a cam :)
 
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#18 ·
still looking for that roller cam info...

although i now have my slider cam info complete, since i just bought a NOS "big" svo cam today. I'll take that one over to web cam and ask them to spec it out.
 
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#19 ·
Here. So your in the cam building business now?


Cam Lift (Intake):.216"
Cam Lift (Exhaust):.216"
Valve Lift (Intake):.355"
Valve Lift (Exhaust):.355"
Duration at .050" Lobe Lift (Intake):189 Deg
Duration at .050" Lobe Lift (Exhaust):186 Deg
 
#20 ·
OHC230 said:
Here. So your in the cam building business now?
Click to expand...
i do offer cam grinds for the zetec motor that are of my own choosing, so in a way... yes i'm in the cam biz, with the help of my business friends.

steve at web camshafts is my guru, as well as the guys at esslinger.

i've worked with both of them now for a decade with the zetec solid bucket stuff.

now i'll be picking their brains and burning up my own to see what i can do with the 2.3 ohc cam.
 
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