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Advice for my Build (2004, automatic)

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Mongoose07

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
So, my budget is around $3000-$4000 by the end of this summer.

I have an automatic, 2004 V6 Mustang (3.9 L).

The only non-visual mod on the car is a Magnaflow Dual Exhaust that connects to the existing stock 'y' pipe. For reference, I work in a car shop where I can get many of the smaller parts installed for free/cheap, depending on the nature of the work.

My proposed list:

-MAC Long Tube Headers (These will not connect to my stock y pipe, though I'm sure the local exhaust shop can custom fit that until it works)
-4.10 gears (this is an automatic, after all) with Limited Split Differential T-Lok from American Muscle
-SuperSixMotorsports' Power Pak Stage 2: this is the big one, and I know this type of work can be done for less money (SSM asks for $2000), so any advice here would be great. I'd also like to know the compatability of this mod with the 4.10 gears and whether or not the stock rear end can handle the horsepower. For reference, the mod alone will add 70 rwhp, and the stock rear end can take up to 300. I'm not sure of the total mods will allow this to work safely.
-Generic CAI from AmericanMuscle- might as well at this point
-If there's any money left over, I'll throw in an Underdrive Pulley from rpm
And Obviously...
-Tuner or Dyno Tuned at shop afterwards

My end goal is to keep up with stock automatic GT's (the 4.6 from this year). With these mods, I should match them as far as total horsepower goes. From my research in to the SSM Power Pak, the car would initially be at lower horsepower @ any given rpm compared to a V8, but I'm hoping/estimating/praying the gears will force my car into that stronger power band much sooner and allow it to be both faster and quicker.

Thanks for any/all your feedback! I've been doing some research and this is what I've come up with.
 
Discussion starter · #4 ·
Green_6er said:
i would invest in a 4.2 from an f-150 and got all forged internals and went boost after i got some more money then get an 8.8 with 4.10s since you have an auto. thats just my $.02
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Ideally, after these mods, I won't touch the car performance wise again. I'll dress it up a little more, but I'd like to leave it as a quick little daily driver because I can't sell it for sentimental reasons but would like to have the power of a GT.
 
Discussion starter · #6 ·
Green_6er said:
since the car is sentimental too you, and if your state allows it just do a 4.6 swap. or just get a cam from comp cams and p&p your intake and heads and get a 65mm throttle body. the power pack is basically just p&p heads and intake and a cam.
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A 4.6 swap will be ridiculously costly and time-consuming, man. Just from leafing through these forums I can see that it's basically impossible, especially considering this is my daily driven car and I kind of need it to drive to work.

As to your second option, with knowing my end goals, which cam should I get from Compcams, and what would you estimate the cost to be on porting/polishing the heads/intake? What kind of numbers would I make?

I really want this to at least keep up with the stock GT. I'm looking into TMA for turbo, but I have a feeling that just that $3000 isn't all there is to getting it set up and running on my car.
 
#8 ·
Mongoose07 said:
A 4.6 swap will be ridiculously costly and time-consuming, man. Just from leafing through these forums I can see that it's basically impossible, especially considering this is my daily driven car and I kind of need it to drive to work.

As to your second option, with knowing my end goals, which cam should I get from Compcams, and what would you estimate the cost to be on porting/polishing the heads/intake? What kind of numbers would I make?

I really want this to at least keep up with the stock GT. I'm looking into TMA for turbo, but I have a feeling that just that $3000 isn't all there is to getting it set up and running on my car.
Click to expand...
a 4.6 swap could be really cheap if you bought a wrecked gt for really cheap and you did all of the work yourself. and for a cam, it just depends on how you will be driving it, a more aggressive cam will cause for upgraded rockers, springs, lifters, etc. and for the p&p idk how much the cost would be because i would do it myself and as i have been reading on forums about porting and polishing on the heads (that's where the bottle neck of our motors are) depending on how much you port the heads and intake will determine your hp and tq numbers. but i have read as much as 50hp and 50 tq from p&p the heads and intake.
 
Discussion starter · #9 ·
@Green 6_er

Thanks for the input again! I don't really see myself having the time/knowhow to do a full engine swap (it's a LOT of work, and I've only relatively recently begun truly learning about the insides of these cars). Even at my shop, there's no single person I can count on who's done a full swap before.

After p/ping the heads and intake, and throwing in the Cam, will the 4.10 gears still be okay? I know to stay away from them on a F/I build, but I'm not sure if they're still okay on a more aggressive N/A car. Again, I'm looking for at least 260 at the crank and 230ish to the wheels.
 
#10 ·
Mongoose07 said:
@Green 6_er

Thanks for the input again! I don't really see myself having the time/knowhow to do a full engine swap (it's a LOT of work, and I've only relatively recently begun truly learning about the insides of these cars). Even at my shop, there's no single person I can count on who's done a full swap before.

After p/ping the heads and intake, and throwing in the Cam, will the 4.10 gears still be okay? I know to stay away from them on a F/I build, but I'm not sure if they're still okay on a more aggressive N/A car. Again, I'm looking for at least 260 at the crank and 230ish to the wheels.
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Find MustangMikes thread.
 
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#11 ·
with those mods i wouldn't be surprised if you got more than 260 at the crank. oh yea and you may want to also find a higher stall converter for your tranny. but i personally wouldn't want the 4.10s because i like my mpg :) (i have a manual but have some experience with autos) but the 4.10s should still be fine. but when you put the cam in get 1.7 ratio rocker arms and upgraded springs.
 
Discussion starter · #12 ·
Green_6er said:
with those mods i wouldn't be surprised if you got more than 260 at the crank. oh yea and you may want to also find a higher stall converter for your tranny. but i personally wouldn't want the 4.10s because i like my mpg :) (i have a manual but have some experience with autos) but the 4.10s should still be fine. but when you put the cam in get 1.7 ratio rocker arms and upgraded springs.
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I'm not too worried about the MPG ;) it'll probably be a little better in cities from what I've read anyways, which is fine since this car rarely sees true highway miles.

What do the rocker arms/springs do, and how necessary are they?

The stall converter I've heard recommended, but I'm not sure exactly how much it'll help me besides allowing me to have a better launch?
 
#13 ·
Mongoose07 said:
I'm not too worried about the MPG ;) it'll probably be a little better in cities from what I've read anyways, which is fine since this car rarely sees true highway miles.

What do the rocker arms/springs do, and how necessary are they?

The stall converter I've heard recommended, but I'm not sure exactly how much it'll help me besides allowing me to have a better launch?
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the bigger rocker arms and the bigger (valve) springs keep the valve open longer which mean more fuel and more fuel means MORE POWA:3gears!! but aren't necessary and if you drive in the city a lot and a gt pulls up beside you, sometimes a race is won or lost by the launch :yes
 
Discussion starter · #14 ·
Green_6er said:
the bigger rocker arms and the bigger (valve) springs keep the valve open longer which mean more fuel and more fuel means MORE POWA:3gears!! but aren't necessary and if you drive in the city a lot and a gt pulls up beside you, sometimes a race is won or lost by the launch :yes
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Which rocker arms and springs should I look into? Are there any specifications in particular/brands? How difficult would they be to install (I'm guessing it would be best to do this at the same time as the HCI work)?

I'll most likely do the HCI work with the rest of my mods, but I'll probably have to get it done by a performance shop unless you think it would be doable for me and the mechanics at my shop (it's a basic mechanic shop). I was asking about the costs of it compared to the "power pak" because most likely it will have to be done for me from what I've read?
 
#15 ·
well the power pack is wayyyyyy over priced imo. but my dad and i have a loaded garage (have built many engines) and doing the rocker arms is pretty straight forward. but i would recommend doing the cam, springs, rocker arms, and p&p at the same time. because it is so much easier to do the heads and such with them out of the car. but for rocker arms and springs i personally would go with comp cams. i'll post a link at the bottom to the cam website. but the rocker arms you could probably get from ssm. but for p&p i have heard from 300-500 for heads and intake. and for the cam i have figured it out to be around 800 - 1k for the cam, rocker arms, springs, push rods, and valve locks. any other questions? XD
 
Discussion starter · #17 ·
Green_6er said:
well the power pack is wayyyyyy over priced imo. but my dad and i have a loaded garage (have built many engines) and doing the rocker arms is pretty straight forward. but i would recommend doing the cam, springs, rocker arms, and p&p at the same time. because it is so much easier to do the heads and such with them out of the car. but for rocker arms and springs i personally would go with comp cams. i'll post a link at the bottom to the cam website. but the rocker arms you could probably get from ssm. but for p&p i have heard from 300-500 for heads and intake. and for the cam i have figured it out to be around 800 - 1k for the cam, rocker arms, springs, push rods, and valve locks. any other questions? XD
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haha, thanks again

Can you give me an exact list of what I would need then, to do the job right without buying just the straight up "power pak?" I can buy the cam for around $400 (that's what they seem to go for, unless you can point me elsewhere?), get the heads/intake p&p'ed at a shop, and then how much should I be looking to spend on buying/installing the arms, springs, rods, locks?
I only ask because this already is starting to sound more expensive than the $2000 for the kit from SSM that I could just pay to install and have the HP guaranteed.
 
#18 ·
on the power pack i don't think that they include the rockers, push rods, etc. but you will need the p&p heads and intakes, gaskets, cam, rockers, pushrods, valve locks, valve springs, bigger valves if you can find them (get the heads prepped at the machine shop for the bigger valves), fluids, and all of this would add up to probably like 2 - 2.5k. but all of this is coming off of the top of my head because i haven't done any of this but i have researched a lot of this. and the cam price is like $333 at the link i posted above.
 
Discussion starter · #19 ·
Green_6er said:
on the power pack i don't think that they include the rockers, push rods, etc. but you will need the p&p heads and intakes, gaskets, cam, rockers, pushrods, valve locks, valve springs, bigger valves if you can find them (get the heads prepped at the machine shop for the bigger valves), fluids, and all of this would add up to probably like 2 - 2.5k. but all of this is coming off of the top of my head because i haven't done any of this but i have researched a lot of this. and the cam price is like $333 at the link i posted above.
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Do you think that all of that together will add up to <$2500ish if it was installed by a shop too? Or was estimate more of a "parts" type one?
 
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