I was quoted about fifteen grand to do a 4.6 with only 450 HP and I thought that was freaking high... what do you guys think? He also said we could do a Cleveland 351 fuel injected swap on my mustang... The 351 would be a pantera 600hp Cleveland which would be a few grand less... what would u guys do?
Boosted 4.6 or Pantera cleveland motor swap?
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TinyWeyant
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I think what I am going to do is just go all motor with the trickflow top end kit for now...
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I have to go back to college next semester and this much money is just crazy to spend on a car... Later down the road ill throw a low boost system on it or something when I have the $$ I just want it back up and running with some good power
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Am I the only one confused by the shop specifying the 351C was coming out of a Pantera? I mean, one, to wreck a Pantera to put the engine in a Mustang should warrant a death sentence, and two, there was nothing special about those motors over the 351Cs *not* used in Panteras.
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11,127 Posts
Trickflow top end kit will cost you the same if not more and you will end up with less power.
Find a used blower and a friend that will help you install it. Once your done you'll be glad you didnt spend that kinda money on the install. its not bad at all and only a few hours.
$2.5-3.5K for the used blower and you'll have around 350hp.
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Last I checked that top end kit complete with cams was like $2995. There is a complete blower kit that goes for $3014 and will have quite a bit more power than that top end kit and will have room to grow. This guy on another forum just went the trick flow heads with cams route and these are his numbers in the link below Just finished the head/cam swap! - MustangForums.com 302rwhp/319rwtq. but he went with the heads $2200 and different cams $589 $2789. unless you're dead set on n/a but clearly you're not bc you said "low boost later. I myself I just hunted and waited and picked up a complete v1 s trim kit for $2500 339rwhp/358rwtq @4-5psi with a crappy belt tensioner and through an auto. Just wait it out and do a bit of reading/research.
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900 for cams and springs, ****, thats it Volvo I quit, I am now officially installing cams, and putting engines together for mustangs. Half their price, prob quicker turn around and a much funnier guy to deal with
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They claim 380hp out of the top end kits.. and it would be cheaper because off all the stuff you don't have to buy such as fuel upgrades intercoolers gauges the list goes on... it should not be too expensive... 3100 for the entire kit... I will just find someone who will assemble it for cheaper and I think all will work out... Buying used procharger systems is not something I want to do. I am afraid of getting screwed over...
What do you think I would make with 78 mm throttle body, bbk cai, long tube headers, catless exhaust, and a 91 octane tune?
Let me know if I should consider any other mods in addition to this...
What do you think I would make with 78 mm throttle body, bbk cai, long tube headers, catless exhaust, and a 91 octane tune?
Let me know if I should consider any other mods in addition to this...
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Thats 380 at the motor so like 325-330rwhp. You can get a new non-intercooled Vortech V3 Si complete kit with injectors, svt focus pump, and a boost gauge for around $3500 plus shipping and you could make 360-400rwhp. For $400 more than the TF top end kit it is a better deal. It also gives you room to grow cause you can add meth or an intercooler in the future with a smaller pulley and make more power without even touching the heads/cams/intake. Call up Kurgan Motorsports and get a quote.
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With your current mods you'll make 255-260rwhp.
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You beat me to it. Plus with the top end kit your pretty much maxed out. You can get more power but its expensive and labor intensive. Also if you do the top end kit to make good NA power you will need to REDO the top end when you add boost.
I wouldnt worry bout gettin screwed over with a used blower. ALl you need to do is make sure the impeller spins freely and doesnt wobble and your good.
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I actually don't think that's all that bad for what's involved, depending on the specs of the internals. Built engine all assembled, brand new Procharger, fuel system, dyno tune, and walking out the door with a very, very reliable 400+ RWHP is kind of fair.
Some people are forgetting that while the P1SC isn't as capable as the D1SC, with the right heads/cams, pulley it down, and 600 RWHP wouldn't be too hard to attain, and the built engine is already there to handle it.
And as 03 StangGuy said, don't worry about buying a used blower. Do the obvious things. Check for chipped impellers, any shaft play on the impeller, and see if it spins freely. Also, check around the gear case for old oil stains. It could be a sign that it has bad seals.
Basically, I bought my complete Vortech V1 setup for $1,800. Checked it over in a parking lot in less than 5 minutes, everything seems fine. I'm just going to wait a while to have it installed. Whatever you do OP, don't think that going N/A is going to be the cheaper/easier way out and with similar results compared to a blower or a turbo on a 4.6. It's just not easy to get good power out of them N/A. Lots try, only a few have very impressive results.
And it's usually the stroked, big bore, cammed out engines that aren't all that fun to drive at low speeds on the street. I thought about it too. When I was getting money together earlier this year, around February, I thought with a T56 and some HiTech stage 2 cams, it'd be fun enough. But with stock cams I can have 70-80 more RWHP, with a blower.
Some people are forgetting that while the P1SC isn't as capable as the D1SC, with the right heads/cams, pulley it down, and 600 RWHP wouldn't be too hard to attain, and the built engine is already there to handle it.
And as 03 StangGuy said, don't worry about buying a used blower. Do the obvious things. Check for chipped impellers, any shaft play on the impeller, and see if it spins freely. Also, check around the gear case for old oil stains. It could be a sign that it has bad seals.
Basically, I bought my complete Vortech V1 setup for $1,800. Checked it over in a parking lot in less than 5 minutes, everything seems fine. I'm just going to wait a while to have it installed. Whatever you do OP, don't think that going N/A is going to be the cheaper/easier way out and with similar results compared to a blower or a turbo on a 4.6. It's just not easy to get good power out of them N/A. Lots try, only a few have very impressive results.
And it's usually the stroked, big bore, cammed out engines that aren't all that fun to drive at low speeds on the street. I thought about it too. When I was getting money together earlier this year, around February, I thought with a T56 and some HiTech stage 2 cams, it'd be fun enough. But with stock cams I can have 70-80 more RWHP, with a blower.
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Not to mention more low end torque which will give you that seat of the pants feel!
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Good news I went to a shop today called total mustangs and he can do my motor for around 9-10 grand... Thats with a blower or a turbo on it 
He said that it would be a shortblock for forged lower end using my same heads and cams... Im just curious how much power I could push out of it? Also is running turbos a bad idea? He said is a little bit cheaper but I will plant more power with turbos?
He said that it would be a shortblock for forged lower end using my same heads and cams... Im just curious how much power I could push out of it? Also is running turbos a bad idea? He said is a little bit cheaper but I will plant more power with turbos?
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Exactly, you will. Turbos are more efficient due to using exhaust gasses/heat energy that would have been otherwise wasted, while a supercharger draws power from the crankshaft pulley to turn it.
Also, since a turbo it not belt driven, and does not always spin relative to the engine RPM, with the right sized turbo and A/R, you can hit full boost at a significantly lower RPM. At this point, you're probably wondering why I have a supercharger since I'm giving the facts like it is, explaining how turbos have the advantage.
Personal preference for a Mustang. I wanted that raw mechanical sound of a centrifugal, I didn't really like the idea of having to run a Y pipe in the case of a single turbo, and the deal was there for a supercharger. My project Z28 is completely torn down now, I have a decent 4 bolt 350 iron block out of it that I eventually want to stroke out to a 383 and run a turbo or two on. The Mustang is my daily driver, so I'd actually prefer the linear power curve of a centrifugal. I wouldn't want the instant boost of a twin screw or roots, or the boost "kick" of a turbo really. I did want that, but changed my mind.
It's all about what you want. You can get just as much power out of a centrifugal, and at least they're the most efficient method of supercharging. Vortech's highest rated supercharger, the V-28 123A is rated at 83% efficiency and 2,800 horsepower. If you want a very fun street car with a linear torque curve, go with a centrifugal. If you want more efficient power, and the ability to make boost at a lower RPM, go with a turbo.
I personally want both. Each car has it's purpose. I want my Camaro to eventually be running a turbo 383, stalled manual auto, under 3,000 pounds. Already gutted anyway, so that part is almost achieved.
Also, since a turbo it not belt driven, and does not always spin relative to the engine RPM, with the right sized turbo and A/R, you can hit full boost at a significantly lower RPM. At this point, you're probably wondering why I have a supercharger since I'm giving the facts like it is, explaining how turbos have the advantage.
Personal preference for a Mustang. I wanted that raw mechanical sound of a centrifugal, I didn't really like the idea of having to run a Y pipe in the case of a single turbo, and the deal was there for a supercharger. My project Z28 is completely torn down now, I have a decent 4 bolt 350 iron block out of it that I eventually want to stroke out to a 383 and run a turbo or two on. The Mustang is my daily driver, so I'd actually prefer the linear power curve of a centrifugal. I wouldn't want the instant boost of a twin screw or roots, or the boost "kick" of a turbo really. I did want that, but changed my mind.
It's all about what you want. You can get just as much power out of a centrifugal, and at least they're the most efficient method of supercharging. Vortech's highest rated supercharger, the V-28 123A is rated at 83% efficiency and 2,800 horsepower. If you want a very fun street car with a linear torque curve, go with a centrifugal. If you want more efficient power, and the ability to make boost at a lower RPM, go with a turbo.
I personally want both. Each car has it's purpose. I want my Camaro to eventually be running a turbo 383, stalled manual auto, under 3,000 pounds. Already gutted anyway, so that part is almost achieved.
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Turbo is a better choice over a supercharger but usually costs a few thousand more because you need to get an aftermarket front suspension to fit the piping. You'll also need to get rid of your headers because you'll need different headers for a turbo. Yes, at the same psi as a supercharger a turbo will make more power because it isn't using any engine power to spin. It takes about 15% engine power to spin a supercharger.Good news I went to a shop today called total mustangs and he can do my motor for around 9-10 grand... Thats with a blower or a turbo on it
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Thank you kevin C those are the kind of answers I like.... Do I need to build the rear end or will it be okay?
The guy at the shop said that a turbo would be less than going with a procharger... Any idea on a good turbo kit that wont break the bank to much? He knows im on a budget, so im sure im not getting the best of the best but who cares
The guy at the shop said that a turbo would be less than going with a procharger... Any idea on a good turbo kit that wont break the bank to much? He knows im on a budget, so im sure im not getting the best of the best but who cares
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Your stock cams will be the limiting factor for adding boost. NA cams create a high dynamic pressure to make power which is bad for boost. You can get cams for under a grand so I would throw those in too so all you need to do down the road is swap the pulley and add fuel. Wheather or not you get cams now get NOTCHED PISTONS! If you dont your cam choices will be very limited when you do decide to get them.Good news I went to a shop today called total mustangs and he can do my motor for around 9-10 grand... Thats with a blower or a turbo on it
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433 Posts
Okay so cams I will talk to him about, but what about my rear end? Are the gt pretty stout or do I need some moser rear axle or something?
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