My wife has a 2009 conv with 1 12inc sub now. its not to loud but sounds ok. I want to put two 12inc JBL subs in a ported box bilt to spec. It would be runing 700 RMS to the pair of subs. Do yall think would be a good set up. I have a Kenwood KAC-8104D it douse 500W rms at 4 ohm & 900W RMS at 2 ohms. The sub is a Orion XTR2 12inc it the one from 92 with the blue leaters i have it at 4 ohms. If yall have any outher setups that would sound good plz post i would like to use the amp i have but have the money to buy another if need be. Thanks Aaron
Conv and subs
manson243
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My wife has a 2009 conv with 1 12inc sub now. its not to loud but sounds ok. I want to put two 12inc JBL subs in a ported box bilt to spec. It would be runing 700 RMS to the pair of subs. Do yall think would be a good set up. I have a Kenwood KAC-8104D it douse 500W rms at 4 ohm & 900W RMS at 2 ohms. The sub is a Orion XTR2 12inc it the one from 92 with the blue leaters i have it at 4 ohms. If yall have any outher setups that would sound good plz post i would like to use the amp i have but have the money to buy another if need be. Thanks Aaron
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First thing to know is that, that amp is 300RMS at 4ohms, and 500RMS at 2 ohms. NOT 500/900. Not sure where you got that from.
As for running a pair of 12s, Are the subs 4ohm? If so, you can run them as a single 2ohm load, and they will effectively see about 250rms into each sub. Dont worry, that is a lot more than what you would think, and for those subs, that is about where you want to be. Be sure to utilize the subsonic filter on the amp to prevent them from overextending below the port frequency.
When you have a given wattage, divided over multiple subs, if essentially splits the power evenly across them. Like my 1100 watt Zapco powering my 3 Image Dynamics 12s' each sub saw roughly 350RMS.
As for running a pair of 12s, Are the subs 4ohm? If so, you can run them as a single 2ohm load, and they will effectively see about 250rms into each sub. Dont worry, that is a lot more than what you would think, and for those subs, that is about where you want to be. Be sure to utilize the subsonic filter on the amp to prevent them from overextending below the port frequency.
When you have a given wattage, divided over multiple subs, if essentially splits the power evenly across them. Like my 1100 watt Zapco powering my 3 Image Dynamics 12s' each sub saw roughly 350RMS.
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Which particular JBL subs are there? Like full model number.
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14,209 Posts
i love JL.. really do.. and rockford too.. those are probably the only ones i will stick too
but my audio guy just became a dealer for hertz?? no clue what that is but he said its good stuff and he wants me to test them out so ill take a risk..
this is my setup that i have now..
Setup 1
2x 12" Rockford T1's
2x Rockford Power 500w Mono Amp
2x Rockford Capacitor
Setup 2
2x JL 12w7
1x JL 1000W Amp
1x Rockford Capacitor
i need to start working on the speakers and tweeters but im still trying to figure out what kind of box i want in the trunk... in the mustang i will probably build a full trunk box and in the charger i might just pull out the subs at all or just get some skinny ass subs since i need the space bad...
but my audio guy just became a dealer for hertz?? no clue what that is but he said its good stuff and he wants me to test them out so ill take a risk..
this is my setup that i have now..
Setup 1
2x 12" Rockford T1's
2x Rockford Power 500w Mono Amp
2x Rockford Capacitor
Setup 2
2x JL 12w7
1x JL 1000W Amp
1x Rockford Capacitor
i need to start working on the speakers and tweeters but im still trying to figure out what kind of box i want in the trunk... in the mustang i will probably build a full trunk box and in the charger i might just pull out the subs at all or just get some skinny ass subs since i need the space bad...
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Rockford from years ago is not what rockford of today is. JL on the other hand, is very good, but there are many better options out there for the same money. JL largely exists on their name, because if you went straight by quality alone, what many others sell for 300, JL sells for 450. At the same quality. Diamond D6s take a dump on W6s, Image Dynamics is in the same price range and just destroys JL in every aspect, if you heard the difference between a W6 and an IDQ, you would almost laugh at how badly the JL performs comparatively. We took a single JL W3 10 out of a customer's car, put 2 Image Dynamics 8's in a TINY box in its place, and he almost **** his pants at how much better it was, both in terms of musical quality, and how hard it hit. And yes, 8s can go deep. Its all in the box and picking a quality speaker. I dont want to insult Youngin, but Rockford is garbage nowadays. We wont even sell or install it. Its that bad.
Some of the older rockford stuff is AWESOME. There was that one old school punch series amp that put down like 3 times what it was rated for, and even now today sells used, in beat up condition, for more than what it sold for new. But today's RF gear is a far cry from that.
Beware of thin mount subs, they never put out what they should for a speaker of their size. You are better off with a single normal 12 than you are with 2 thin mount 12s, or worse 2 thin mount 10s. (although 2 normal 10s will walk a single 12, but will also take up more space)
Capacitors...Dont even get me started. They are a poor band aid fix for other problems. Modern charging systems are more than capable of supporting the setups that 99.9% of people run. And for those that actually need more, you are far better off with a real power cell like the shuriken I run or a kinetic or something of the like. A 1 or even 2 farad capacitor is a joke, a battery type power cell is more in the range of 800 farads.
If you have proper wiring and properly installed stuff, there is no need for a capacitor. That is old school stuff that has been surpassed years ago.
Trust me when I say this, let go of almost everything you learned 5 or more years ago, and get into today's gear. The brands have all changed, the good ones are 10 times better than they ever were, and many of the cheap ones are just as good as the old good ones.
For the record, up above I am NOT suggesting 8's for your convertible, unless you run like 6 of them. (I did a car with 8 8s once, it was nutty how hard it hit) For a vert, you really 12s. Either a pair of decent 12s or a single mind blowing 12. Myself, I am going with what is argugeably the best sub on the planet, the Morel Ultimo. There simply doesnt get any better, and it makes a joke out of the best JL and Image Dynamics have to offer. A 5" voice coil, handles 800 REAL watts on its sheet, but will happily take 1000.
Which brings me to amp wattage.
Not all 1000 watt amps are created equal (or 100, or 300, or any rating)
There is no single way that amp manufacturers rate their amps. The way say, Sony tests their amps to come out at say 300RMS, may yeild 25000RMS if you hooked a pyramid up to it, and would likely yeild more like 75 maybe 100 if you hooked a Zapco up to it.
There is also more to amps than sheer wattage. There is damping, which is the amps ability to CONTROL THE CONE. Many amps take their power and slam the cone out and allow the natural spring of the speaker/enclosure to pull it back (or slam it in/let it push back out) A good amp will have for lack of a better term, "centering force" that will actively pull the cone back to resting position. On sharp hits the amp will not only push or pull the cone in one direction, it will push or pull it back in the other.
The difference between an amp that can do that, and one that doesnt, is essentially, like almost doubleing the power of the amp, without changing the RMS wattage level. This is why a say $300 300 watt amp, will not sound as loud as a $800 300 watt amp.
And I can promise you that unless that 500 watt fosgate amp is one of their old school punch series amps, it would bench at more in the range of 300 on Zapco's bench, and its damping is crap. (unless its one of the older school amps, in which case, its a great amp, and you should take care to make the thing last as long as you can)
Some of the older rockford stuff is AWESOME. There was that one old school punch series amp that put down like 3 times what it was rated for, and even now today sells used, in beat up condition, for more than what it sold for new. But today's RF gear is a far cry from that.
Beware of thin mount subs, they never put out what they should for a speaker of their size. You are better off with a single normal 12 than you are with 2 thin mount 12s, or worse 2 thin mount 10s. (although 2 normal 10s will walk a single 12, but will also take up more space)
Capacitors...Dont even get me started. They are a poor band aid fix for other problems. Modern charging systems are more than capable of supporting the setups that 99.9% of people run. And for those that actually need more, you are far better off with a real power cell like the shuriken I run or a kinetic or something of the like. A 1 or even 2 farad capacitor is a joke, a battery type power cell is more in the range of 800 farads.
If you have proper wiring and properly installed stuff, there is no need for a capacitor. That is old school stuff that has been surpassed years ago.
Trust me when I say this, let go of almost everything you learned 5 or more years ago, and get into today's gear. The brands have all changed, the good ones are 10 times better than they ever were, and many of the cheap ones are just as good as the old good ones.
For the record, up above I am NOT suggesting 8's for your convertible, unless you run like 6 of them. (I did a car with 8 8s once, it was nutty how hard it hit) For a vert, you really 12s. Either a pair of decent 12s or a single mind blowing 12. Myself, I am going with what is argugeably the best sub on the planet, the Morel Ultimo. There simply doesnt get any better, and it makes a joke out of the best JL and Image Dynamics have to offer. A 5" voice coil, handles 800 REAL watts on its sheet, but will happily take 1000.
Which brings me to amp wattage.
Not all 1000 watt amps are created equal (or 100, or 300, or any rating)
There is no single way that amp manufacturers rate their amps. The way say, Sony tests their amps to come out at say 300RMS, may yeild 25000RMS if you hooked a pyramid up to it, and would likely yeild more like 75 maybe 100 if you hooked a Zapco up to it.
There is also more to amps than sheer wattage. There is damping, which is the amps ability to CONTROL THE CONE. Many amps take their power and slam the cone out and allow the natural spring of the speaker/enclosure to pull it back (or slam it in/let it push back out) A good amp will have for lack of a better term, "centering force" that will actively pull the cone back to resting position. On sharp hits the amp will not only push or pull the cone in one direction, it will push or pull it back in the other.
The difference between an amp that can do that, and one that doesnt, is essentially, like almost doubleing the power of the amp, without changing the RMS wattage level. This is why a say $300 300 watt amp, will not sound as loud as a $800 300 watt amp.
And I can promise you that unless that 500 watt fosgate amp is one of their old school punch series amps, it would bench at more in the range of 300 on Zapco's bench, and its damping is crap. (unless its one of the older school amps, in which case, its a great amp, and you should take care to make the thing last as long as you can)
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Performance Series Class D Monoblock Car Amplifier
RMS Power Rating:
4 ohms: 500 watts x 1 chan.
2 ohms: 900 watts x 1 chan.
1 ohm: >900 watts x 1 chan.
Max power output: 1800 watts x 1 chan
This is the amp I have in her car now. I was thinking about runing 2 or 3 JBL GTO 10 or 12 or even GT-5s cuz i dont have to much to spend. I have a Diamond Audio M5 10 that i can run 500w rms at 2 ohms. if i do this tho i have to get the amp i stated befor. Any help woud be nice thanks.
RMS Power Rating:
4 ohms: 500 watts x 1 chan.
2 ohms: 900 watts x 1 chan.
1 ohm: >900 watts x 1 chan.
Max power output: 1800 watts x 1 chan
This is the amp I have in her car now. I was thinking about runing 2 or 3 JBL GTO 10 or 12 or even GT-5s cuz i dont have to much to spend. I have a Diamond Audio M5 10 that i can run 500w rms at 2 ohms. if i do this tho i have to get the amp i stated befor. Any help woud be nice thanks.
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2,516 Posts
Ok cool
Well first thing to know is that not all watts are created equal. That is a decent amp, but up against the "high end stuff" basically subtract about 300 watts from those figures. A Zapco or some of the high end ARC amps, rated at 300/500 would walk circles around it, but cost 3-4 times as much.
HOWEVER< dont take that as me saying its a bad amp. Kenwood makes decent amps and that is one of their better series. I only bring up the wattage thing because its something most people dont know/understand.
And it will definitely drive the **** out of a pair of 10s or 12s.
As for 10s or 12s. There are a few factors there.
A 12 can be just as tight and musical as a 10, or it can be boomy and loose compared to a 10. This depends a LOT on the enclosure and a decent bit on the quality of the sub.
JBL GTOs are one of my last choices in a sub. I would take Diamond D1s over those. So if you are buying new, look into a D1. If you can scrape the funds, a pair of D3 would be awesome.
3 subs will hit harder than 2 (obviously) Looking at your budget concerns, I think you are better off doing 2 better subs, than 2 cheaper ones. Personally, I think you should spend the amount you would spend on 3, on ONE high end 12. My Morel Ultimo SC is a roughly $500 sub and I promise you that short of the Morel Ultimo (non SC) you wont hear a better sounding sub. And it will EASILY handle that amp.
If you get a high end 12 (one or two, depending on budget and size concerns) you will get better sound and be able to hit close to as hard as a pair of cheap subs.
You could also look at doing a single 4ohm Image Dynamics IDQ 12, which would love that amp, and sound incredible.
What are you looking to get out of the system? What do you listen to?
If you listen to dubstep/rap and club music, you can get away with a lot cheaper setup, since heavy thumping notes that dont have sharp edges or distinct tones can be done by pretty much any sub. (although it will still sound better on a better sub) and in that case 3 12" GTOs will blow your mind. Keep in mind 3 subs will get you a 2.66ohm load, and you will spread the output of the amp over 3 subs, in other words, that amp will put somewhere around 700RMS into the box, and each sub will get about 233 RMS, which is enough, but not optimal. However, if you did 2 of them at 2 ohms you are going to send 450 into each. Which if its not crossed over well, and you arent careful, you are just going to end up replacing subs constantly.
So
What are your goals (how loud? How hard?)
What do you listen to?
Do you give a **** about trunk space?
If you are looking at buying online, where are you looking at?
Well first thing to know is that not all watts are created equal. That is a decent amp, but up against the "high end stuff" basically subtract about 300 watts from those figures. A Zapco or some of the high end ARC amps, rated at 300/500 would walk circles around it, but cost 3-4 times as much.
HOWEVER< dont take that as me saying its a bad amp. Kenwood makes decent amps and that is one of their better series. I only bring up the wattage thing because its something most people dont know/understand.
And it will definitely drive the **** out of a pair of 10s or 12s.
As for 10s or 12s. There are a few factors there.
A 12 can be just as tight and musical as a 10, or it can be boomy and loose compared to a 10. This depends a LOT on the enclosure and a decent bit on the quality of the sub.
JBL GTOs are one of my last choices in a sub. I would take Diamond D1s over those. So if you are buying new, look into a D1. If you can scrape the funds, a pair of D3 would be awesome.
3 subs will hit harder than 2 (obviously) Looking at your budget concerns, I think you are better off doing 2 better subs, than 2 cheaper ones. Personally, I think you should spend the amount you would spend on 3, on ONE high end 12. My Morel Ultimo SC is a roughly $500 sub and I promise you that short of the Morel Ultimo (non SC) you wont hear a better sounding sub. And it will EASILY handle that amp.
If you get a high end 12 (one or two, depending on budget and size concerns) you will get better sound and be able to hit close to as hard as a pair of cheap subs.
You could also look at doing a single 4ohm Image Dynamics IDQ 12, which would love that amp, and sound incredible.
What are you looking to get out of the system? What do you listen to?
If you listen to dubstep/rap and club music, you can get away with a lot cheaper setup, since heavy thumping notes that dont have sharp edges or distinct tones can be done by pretty much any sub. (although it will still sound better on a better sub) and in that case 3 12" GTOs will blow your mind. Keep in mind 3 subs will get you a 2.66ohm load, and you will spread the output of the amp over 3 subs, in other words, that amp will put somewhere around 700RMS into the box, and each sub will get about 233 RMS, which is enough, but not optimal. However, if you did 2 of them at 2 ohms you are going to send 450 into each. Which if its not crossed over well, and you arent careful, you are just going to end up replacing subs constantly.
So
What are your goals (how loud? How hard?)
What do you listen to?
Do you give a **** about trunk space?
If you are looking at buying online, where are you looking at?
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2,516 Posts
If you can swing it
2 of these
Image Dynamics IDQ12 V.3 D4 (IDQ12-V3D4) 12" Dual 4 ohm IDQ V.3 Sub
in this box
12DSPF Dual 12" Sealed Subwoofer Enclosure Box - Sonic Electronix
Take that box and get some pieces of 2X4 and screw/glue them down inside, preferably against the back wall, to take up a little airspace, and it will sound amazing.
That isnt the best box, the airspace is a LITTLE on the big side for those subs, but its not way off.
The reasons for the pieces of 2X4 are twofold
1. Take up some airspace. 3 pieces cut as long as the inside of the box is tall, will take up enough of that airspace to make it damn near dead on.
2. A square box is just about the worst case scenario for a sub. Which that box is (each chamber is square) By putting the 2X4 pieces on the back wall, you will break up the standing wave inside the box and improve the sound a bit.
But answer those 3 questions I posted above before I go really suggesting anything.
2 of these
Image Dynamics IDQ12 V.3 D4 (IDQ12-V3D4) 12" Dual 4 ohm IDQ V.3 Sub
in this box
12DSPF Dual 12" Sealed Subwoofer Enclosure Box - Sonic Electronix
Take that box and get some pieces of 2X4 and screw/glue them down inside, preferably against the back wall, to take up a little airspace, and it will sound amazing.
That isnt the best box, the airspace is a LITTLE on the big side for those subs, but its not way off.
The reasons for the pieces of 2X4 are twofold
1. Take up some airspace. 3 pieces cut as long as the inside of the box is tall, will take up enough of that airspace to make it damn near dead on.
2. A square box is just about the worst case scenario for a sub. Which that box is (each chamber is square) By putting the 2X4 pieces on the back wall, you will break up the standing wave inside the box and improve the sound a bit.
But answer those 3 questions I posted above before I go really suggesting anything.
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316 Posts
I want it to be purty loud
She likes rap/contry,light rock and some jazz
she will need some trunk space due to having to take stuf around and things like that. Bout have the trunk is fine.
i have a diamond M5 Dual 4 ohm so i can run it at 2 ohms its 500w RMS would this be a good mach up to that amp.
She likes rap/contry,light rock and some jazz
she will need some trunk space due to having to take stuf around and things like that. Bout have the trunk is fine.
i have a diamond M5 Dual 4 ohm so i can run it at 2 ohms its 500w RMS would this be a good mach up to that amp.
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2,516 Posts
Yeah that M5 is probably your best option. If you do a custom side box it wont take up even 1/4 of the trunk. Should sound great. With 500 watts, its gonna be loud. Its not going to blow your head off, but its going to be pretty damned loud.
I went from 1 12 powered by 500 watts to 3 12s powered by 1100 watts :lol THAT was blow your head off loud. On some songs it was physically hard to breath if I cranked it up.
I went from 1 12 powered by 500 watts to 3 12s powered by 1100 watts :lol THAT was blow your head off loud. On some songs it was physically hard to breath if I cranked it up.
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316 Posts
Thats how my brothers car is he has 2 DLS Nobelium10i. It has massve SPL with good amounts of SQ. He has the pair powered by a kicker ZX1000.1. There in a coustom built box wraped in black leather. Thos are some crazy subs just dont have that kind of funds right now.
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Here is my sub
![Image]()
![Image]()
![Image]()
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:kneelHere is my sub
![Image]()
![Image]()
![Image]()
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I am actually on the very edge of selling my entire setup to fund cams.
I am just not as worried about having amazing super killer sound in my car anymore. Its decent enough and I really dont want to give up what would realistically be easily half my trunk, and add 75-100lbs to an already heavy car.
So if anyone wants an insane stereo 1300 bucks cash gets it :lol
More directly on topic, get those pics up!
I am just not as worried about having amazing super killer sound in my car anymore. Its decent enough and I really dont want to give up what would realistically be easily half my trunk, and add 75-100lbs to an already heavy car.
So if anyone wants an insane stereo 1300 bucks cash gets it :lol
More directly on topic, get those pics up!
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