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Amp/Wiring Question(wrathchild or others)

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mikeyfitz

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
I have this p.o.s Sony Xplod amp, 1200w 2 channel, running one competition 12"(Cant wait to replace amp)
I blew the fuse in between the battery and the amp, and its a 60amperage, and I know the amp has 2 40amp fuses to prevent blowing.. Should I get a different amp fuse up front? Like 80? Its only thing I can think of as to why it blew, I rechecked all my wiring and didnt see any problems, and it blew randomly in between subs.
 
#2 ·
The power cable fuse is used to protect the cable, not the amp. The (2) 40A fuse on the amp is used to protect the amp. The correct fuse size for the power cable, depends on the size of your cable. I assume at least 2 gauge. 2 gauge cable would need a 225A fuse. If you used a 1/0 gauge that would be a 350A fuse.
 
#3 ·
No way, you dont need a 350 amp fuse or even a 225. Nowhere near it.


You can go by the fuses on the amps, but you dont want to be right at that. For that amp, with 2 40s, you need an 80, which is the most common amperage fuse that people run. However, and this is a VERY small chance, if you crank it up HARD, you can pull that 80, and melt the fuse. My buddy's truck melted his 80 if he had it up loud, but his amp was also running 3 40 amp fuses (Zapco 650.6).

So, there is a 95% chance you would be fine with the standard 80 amp, but I would look for a 100 amp fuse.


Basically, to a certain extent, you want as little fuse as you can get away with. Which ideally means what your amps are, or slightly more. The smaller the fuse the faster it can blow and the less damage it will do as it blows. (in other words, if the cable gets a cut and shorts, it is the difference between "zap" and a small dark spot, or melted to **** and back and possible fire. A 350 amp fuse would be downright dangerous.

In the cases of stereos that DO need a huge fuse, you are generally better off with a good quality circuit breaker. I had a 200amp Stinger one I never got around to installing on my setup. I was going to put it at the battery and the ANL fuse holder after the second battery.



For instance, on my setup with 4 Zapco amps and the Zapco DSP, I ran a 200 amp fuse, and never popped it. I did have a 150 in there for a while, and never popped it, but I only had it in for a while and didnt crank it that hard. I think if I had been slamming the 1100.1 sub amp it may have popped it.


You will be fine on the standard 80 amp barrel fuse. Just run that. It will be a lot easier to find than 100 amp fuses. 95% of people that have an aftermarket stereo run a single 80.
 
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#5 · (Edited)
noser7 said:
I had a 200 fuse in my setup nd it popped. Im running a soundstream rub1.2500 wit 2 12" RF t2's

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Weird, it shouldnt have. We (at the shop I used to work at, and still sometimes do) have run bigger amps than that (or combinations of multiple amps that come out to a larger load) without any problem for years.


ALTHOUGH, with it being a sub amp, those pull heavier loads than others, so they will pop a fuse a lot easier.





The reality is that his Sony 1200 watt amp, is a ~300 watt amp. And not a good solid 300 watts even at that. Sony MASSIVELY over-rates their amps, and uses extremely deceptive ways of saying what they are making. The rule of thumb with Sony is take whatever they are claiming, and its 1/4 of that.

The up side, is that it will be more than fine for driving the sub he is planning on driving.
 
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#7 · (Edited)
noser7 said:
U'd be suprised man I had a buddy run 2 explods nd that amp and it pounded pretty good. Not the **** but good

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"good" is a relative term.

I have heard it. They arent. Not to anyone who knows what good actually sounds like. Just because something hits hard, that doesnt mean it sounds good. A sub has to do a lot more than just slam if you want it to sound good.

Please dont take that as me shitting on it, I am just saying, I have heard people say setups like that "sound good" and in every case, it doesnt. They just dont know any better, because they have never heard something that actually sounds good. A lot of times we had a hard time selling them some better gear, because they hadnt heard of the brand. Like the guy that said he didnt want some generic knock offs like Morel (he thought Morel was an Ebay brand, since he had never heard of them, which means OBVIOUSLY they could never be as good as JL :lol ) (JL are definitely very good, but massively overrated and somewhat overpriced) Or the guy that said Zapco was a cheasy cheap brand, because he had never heard of them, and it obviously was a gimmick that ZAP was part of the name :lol )
 
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#8 ·
wrathchild said:
"good" is a relative term.

I have heard it. They arent. Not to anyone who knows what good actually sounds like. Just because something hits hard, that doesnt mean it sounds good. A sub has to do a lot more than just slam if you want it to sound good.

Please dont take that as me shitting on it, I am just saying, I have heard people say setups like that "sound good" and in every case, it doesnt. They just dont know any better, because they have never heard something that actually sounds good. A lot of times we had a hard time selling them some better gear, because they hadnt heard of the brand. Like the guy that said he didnt want some generic knock offs like Morel (he thought Morel was an Ebay brand, since he had never heard of them, which means OBVIOUSLY they could never be as good as JL :lol ) (JL are definitely very good, but massively overrated and somewhat overpriced) Or the guy that said Zapco was a cheasy cheap brand, because he had never heard of them, and it obviously was a gimmick that ZAP was part of the name :lol )
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My "good" is meant by me meaning it to be Kind of loud. When u were sitting in the back seat wit ur head in the trunk

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#9 ·
Check your wiring maybe it grounded out or the wire has a loose connection. And as wraith said the amp fuse should blow first. I ran 4 alpine PDX 1000.1 amps on a 100 barrel fuse plus 2 of their 450.2 amps. I did have a fuse block as well but I never blew any of those. I would blow the amp fuse in the 1000.1 once in awhile when the system was pounding. And those explodes sound like crap and can't handle the power they are rated for.
 
#10 ·
noser7 said:
My "good" is meant by me meaning it to be Kind of loud. When u were sitting in the back seat wit ur head in the trunk

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You should hear "loud" and "controlled and musical" some time :D

Check this out, its from my old Forester with a Zapco 1100.1 pushing 3 Image Dynamics 12s in a big box with 3 1.0cu/ft chambers.

:lol


Take out the bass CD, and pop in some light jazz, and it would make you cry it sounded so delicate and clean. That's the difference :D
 
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#11 ·
wrathchild said:
You should hear "loud" and "controlled and musical" some time :D

Check this out, its from my old Forester with a Zapco 1100.1 pushing 3 Image Dynamics 12s in a big box with 3 1.0cu/ft chambers.
Image Dynamics subwoofers flexing the roof. 07 Subaru Forester XT - YouTube

:lol


Take out the bass CD, and pop in some light jazz, and it would make you cry it sounded so delicate and clean. That's the difference :D
Click to expand...
Did u sound deadn the top?

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#13 ·
must_stang said:
Here are the specs to be followed. Recommended Power and Ground Cable Sizes & Speaker Wire Size and Length

The fuse rating on the amp has nothing to do with the power cable fuse. The power cable fuse size depends on the length and gauge of the power cable.
Click to expand...

It does and it doesnt. Its a good :rule of thumb: to use, which is why I bring it up.



I dont care what a link on 12V says. I know what shops that do this for a living, and set up high end cars, use. And I assure you a 200 amp fuse is ridiculous for that amp.


Current capacity doesnt dictate the fuse size you want. Unless you are going to be pulling current all the way out to that capacity. He wont be. Nowhere near it. It would take an act of god for that amp to pull even 80 amps, let alone the 100 I had mentioned. You want the SMALLEST fuse you can reasonably use for a given setup. The smaller it is, the faster it will blow and less damage it will do before it blows, in the event of a short.


There is no need whatsoever, for a fuse that ridiculously large.
 
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#14 ·
Wrath, I think your missing the point that the Sony amp has less factor in the equation. The size and length of the power cable is what is used to determine the fuse size. The RMS is a small part, but I doubt Sony provides accurate RMS value. You can refute the data on the 12V link, but please provide some documented data that we can all learn from, rather than just the word of Wrath.
 
Discussion starter · #15 ·
Okay, I gotcha now.. Well the kit I had came with these 60A cylinder fuses. (Learning a lot from these posts lol)
But its 4gauge wire, maybe 10ft? Idk, lol.. I know the amp bridged only shoots out 500w RMS, the sub can handle 1400..
 
#16 ·
What must stang is saying is correct you fuse to protect the wire down stream but that is a max rating althogh those ratings seem to be a little high. What wrath is saying is you only need to go as big as needed to protect the amp but really the fuses on the amp should do that.
 
#19 ·
must_stang said:
Wrath, I think your missing the point that the Sony amp has less factor in the equation. The size and length of the power cable is what is used to determine the fuse size. The RMS is a small part, but I doubt Sony provides accurate RMS value. You can refute the data on the 12V link, but please provide some documented data that we can all learn from, rather than just the word of Wrath.
Click to expand...
See that is the thing.

Documentation is ****. (obviously not in all cases, but overall, its the one of worst ways to learn things often times, particularly in the cases of ANYTHING automotive)

Real world use is the only thing that matters. The worst "mechanics" in the world, are the ones who learn and know from reading documentation. That goes for installers or anything for that matter.


The RMS rating on the amp (lets for a second assume we are talking about an amp that has a realistic RMS rating for the purpose of this discussion) does and doesnt. You can pretty closely determine how much current the amp will be pulling to make that number. That is all the fuse you want (or slightly more, as a "margin of error" to cover big hits and whatnot).

Like I said, the lower the fuse, the faster it will blow.

You know what happens when you blow an 80 amp fuse? It goes pop and there is a small black spot where it grounded.

You know what happens when you blow a 300amp fuse? You damn near set the wire on fire.

Now, in cases where you dont NEED a 300 amp fuse, exactly what are you trying to accomplish by fusing it higher? Nothing.


As for your using 0/1 as an example, why would that even come up in the case of this amp? This amp would run fine on even 8 gauge (although I wouldnt run ANYTHING else off that line, and if there is any possibility of it, go to 4 gauge).




You dont fuse to the wire size, you fuse to the load. Go open up your fuse box on your house, or look at the fuse panel in your car. The wires in your car are almost all the same gauge, and they will have fuse ratings anywhere between half an amp and 40 amps.
 
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#20 · (Edited)
must_stang said:
Exactly, the fuses on the amp protect the amp. Seeing that your using 4 gauge at 10 ft, you should use a 150A fuse. Keep in mind if you change out the amp. The 4 gauge is good to 800W RMS.
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The wire gauge has absolutely nothing to do with the fuse needed.
NO one ever said the fuses on the amp are for anything other than protecting the amp. No one said the fuse on the wire, was to protect the amp. I dont understand why you keep harping on that point. BUT, you can use it as a guideline if you dont know what to fuse the line to. The line has to be fused high enough to cover the max load THAT THE AMP WILL PULL, not that the wire can pull. (Unless you are going to be pulling the entire amount of load the wire can hold)
What is your experience level as a car audio installer?
Here is where I worked most recently.
SidewaysAutoSalon

What shop are you basing your massive knowledge and experience level from?



Look, I dont mean to be a dick here, but I am sick so I dont have much ability to be less than totally blunt.

Bottom line, you dont know what you are talking about when it comes to this particular subject as related to car audio. I do. I wouldnt say that outright usually as its pretty rude, but with my fever peaking right now, **** it. My bucket of nice guy has just run empty. I apologize for that. But, any other installer will back up pretty much everything I am saying. Call a shop and ask them what size fuse you need on that amp. They are all going to hand you a standard 80A barrel fuse.


I am done with this discussion. Fuse it for whatever the **** you want. Im gonna go take some meds and sleep on the couch.
 
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