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Are long tube headers worth it?

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Discussion starter · #41 ·
03blackgt said:
get a tuner and tune it for long tube headers program it and youll see a difference from 9 to 30 to 40...
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You must have missed the part where the car was dyno tuned and I have before and after dyno charts. And no, you will not see a 30-40 rwhp gain. Back then in another thread discussing long-tube headers someone made a similar statement about gains on an 03/04 Cobra. Yes, it did gain that much with LTs and a smaller pulley and a new tune. In an effort to sell his view of long-tube headers he forgot to mention the other mods in his original post.
 
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#42 ·
I fell for the Long tubes propaganda and $600 later picked up less than a tenth in the 1/8 with an Automatic on a 100 shot. Things are a little different with FI but if the factory manifolds were paper weights wonder why Ford put them on the Termi, GT500, Non SC - Cobra's, and the Hellion kits making over 700 hp are designed around factory manifolds. Not trying to be in a big debate here but there are way better things to spend money on for most people in this forum - IMO
Here is a quote directly from Kenne Belle and a link to it:
HEADERS
Long tubes make very little, if any, power or actually lose power according to our customer reports, and don't confuse any power gains from removing the pre-cats with header gains. Pre-cat and cat removal will net around 10HP. In our opinion, headers for the 4.6 GT aren't worth the small peak power gains and expense. Always keep in mind that any power gain from exhaust (headers, cat back, and cats) is incrementally proportional to engine air flow/HP and reduced back pressure. That's why some products make "0" Hp on stock or +100HP engines but more on a +200HP engine. Every component has it's limits. Example: If the headers make 20HP at 700HP but nothing a 400, 500, and 10HP at 600HP why would you buy headers for an engine that will never make 600 or 700HP?
http://kennebell.net/KBWebsite/Common/pdfs/46gtTechTips.pdf
 
#43 ·
Holy thread revival...
But with my mods (listed in my sig) and I gained a total of about 40rwhp.
 
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#44 ·
Don't feel bad... We've all done it at one point or another...

Thanks for the update! I already have the shorties and was debating if I really wanted to spend money on another full exhaust system.... NOPE! Again, thank you!


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#45 ·
I wout go threw the haste of putting long tubes, off road x pipe gained most of the power there for a lot cheaper.
 
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#46 ·
Haha 2008...

I dont regret my LT install. Car sounds more aggressive at WOT and quieter at idle/cruising. And the car felt a lot more responsive. Then again i'm throwing a decent amount of boost down its neck.
 
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#47 ·
I'll chime in on this 4 year old thread. I've posted before and I am still trying to dig out the dyno sheet. 2001 Mustang GT with a Kenne Bell blower on it. Original setup was FRPP Shorties, BBK O/R X-pipe and Flowmaster 40's. The replacement was: BBK Long Tubes, BBK Catted X-Pipe and Spintech Side Exit Exhaust. There was a 29 rwhp change. I can't attribute 29 rwhp to just a Spintech exhaust, even though Flowmaster is restrictive. This was on the same MustangDyno within the same environments (humidity, temp, etc).
Personally I'd say the Long Tubes gave a decent gain. I've saw a few others whom have picked up 12-15rwhp off of Long Tubes as well on N/A gains with the right setup. I'll shoot a few messages to see if I can obtain some of these charts from a few buddies, if they have them anymore.
 
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#48 ·
I didn't dyno before and after buy my ass dyno could tell a difference with LTs. And let me say my ass dyno dont lie.:swordfight:
 
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#50 ·
See, you have 2 separate trains of thought here. Lovers and haters. Each side will claim there's hundreds of examples to "prove" that they are right. Personally, I don't care about the butt dyno, or the few buddies who can swear they picked up such and such power. The only physical proof I've seen myself says that LTs don't do much for power on the modular 4.6. You won't convince someone with LTs that they're a waste of money, just as you won't convince me that they're worth 40whp. The only thing I can say to someone who is considering them, don't take your buddy's word for it, don't get cought up in the debate on these forums. Go talk to actual car builders, in person. Guys who do this as a profession. Guys who build 1000hp cars. Guys with real world experience. Guys who aren't trying to sell you something. Then go ahead and make a decision from there. I'm not telling you my opinion is right, I'm simply recommending you make an informed decision, weigh the plus/minus for yourself
 
Discussion starter · #51 ·
Butt dynos are a psychological justification for the money that was spent. I have seen people post that they could feel the difference from an aftermarket throttle body. A buddy's cousin's car is just hearsay and is most likely a fish tale. There have been hundreds of treads on long-tube headers in the past 4-5 years. Matt02GT is the only one I remember to post before and after dynos for the long-tubes by themselves. Most people do more than one mod then dyno their car. He picked up 13 rwhp/18 rwtq. That is good but you can almost see that type of difference by just putting the same car on the same dyno on different days. With no changes on the same dyno my car has dynoed 370 and 385 rwhp (SAE). I'm running exactly the same exhaust as Matt and I saw no gains at all. But my charts were from different dynos and I may have gotten Matt's gains but it just didn't show. I don't know why some cars show gains and some don't. Perhaps it is because the gain falls within the margin of error of the dyno. Here is Matt's chart. Remember: BBK ceramic LTs with catted x-pipe costs about $1,000. I also paid $200 to have them put in. I think Matt installed his own.



---------- Post added at 08:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:25 AM ----------

It just dawned on me that the dyno's margin of error might be why some people see 15 rwhp gains from LTs and others don't. Dyno calibration is critical. If the error is to the positive then you will see more gain than average. If the error is to the negative then you might not see any.

Still there isn't any way I will believe that some saw 40 rwhp gains from long-tubes alone on our motors. You might see modest gains for a lot of money.
 
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#52 ·
every time these threads pop up i ask one question. N/A have you seen a 4.6 2v make 300rwhp without long tubes? I bet i can find 15-1 that have them to not. Not trying to start an argument but i bet you would be hard pressed to find one.
 
#54 ·
Longtube headers are more critical in a max-effort N/A build than a modest forced induction build. The headers help pull the charge through the combustion chamber when they are coupled with cams that have a good amount of overlap.

I know one thing for sure, longtube headers make a huge improvement in sound quality of a Mustang.
 
#55 ·
Old thread or not. ITS THE AREA UNDER THE CURVE!!!!! Where do you spend all your time? A single peak rpm or 2500 up to peak. I'm out

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#56 ·
would longtube make full torque come in sooner tho or just improve it threw the curve
 
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Discussion starter · #59 ·
A dyno serves two purposes. It is a means for tuning and it tells us if our mods are doing what we expect. But you are correct in that it is street and track performance that is important, not dyno numbers. I have seen posts in the past where people said they did improve their performance at the track and now two people have posted here that they saw little or no improvement.
 
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#60 ·
Technically it's not hearsay from what I'm posting, considering I was at the shop with him when the car was dyno'd. That's the only reason why I'm throwing in a response in this thread, otherwise it would technically all a lie. It wasn't my car so I didn't save the Dyno sheets. Again though, the car had multiple things done to it (switched from shorty headers to long tubes and a change in exhaust and o/r x to a catted x). However, I can't justify the gains that he got from just the spintech mufflers versus the flowmaster mufflers. I mean I know flowmaster sucks, but do they suck that bad? That could be another question, is how bad does flowmaster restrict? Maybe he didn't see any gains on his Long Tube install, and it was almost all strictly from the drop of the flowmaster exhaust?
 
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04darkshadowgreygt
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