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Rislone Oil Supplement with ZDDP

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Eagle2000GT

· US Air Force (retired)
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Discussion starter · #1 ·
I have been researching ZDDP) in oil. It has been used as an anti-wear additive in oil since 1942. For environmental reasons the percent of ZDDP in oil has been reduced. The API Standard SN which came out in 2011 states that phosphorus (a part of ZDDP) must be between 600-800 ppm. Zinc content is slightly higher. But automobile manufacturers have pushed the oil industry to the low end to protect the warranty on their catalytic convertors. Mobil 1 full-synthetic 5w-30 (as tested by PQIA) has only 650 ppm of phosphorus even though the spec sheet says 800 ppm and the Mobil 1 full-synthetic 0w-30 that I've been running only advertises 650 ppm. Experts disagree somewhat but I've seen recommended levels for modern motors range from 700-900 ppm, 800 ppm seems to be the average.

I have considered changing to a European blend oil. They are rare in the US. At Walmart there is only one: Mobil 1 0w-40. 40 grade and thicker oils are not regulated by the SN standard. It is advertised to have 1000 ppm phosphorus and slightly more zinc. The parts store sells that and Castrol Edge 0w-30 European blend. I have not been about to find the phosphorus and zinc content of that oil. I think they are using something else other than ZDDP. I'm reluctant to use the heavier 0w-40 oil. I would still like to use the Mobil 1 0w-30 but I want more ZDDP in the oil.

Has anyone used Rislone Oil Supplement with ZDDP? Using their recommended dosage of 5.5 oz per 6 quarts of oil for 2000-2004 motors I calculate that the phosphorus (and zinc) levels would be about identical to European blend oils: 1030 ppm phosphorus with slightly more zinc. A lower dosage of 3 oz would put phosphorus at 818 ppm. That is probably what I'd use.
 
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#2 ·
Check out the Royal Purple racing oils. I buy it for $9/quart.

From their website:
"All Royal Purple engine oils contain the zinc/phosphorus compound zinc dialkyl dithiophosphate (ZDDP). Royal Purple HPS and XPR lines of engine oils are formulated with a higher concentration of these elements and are suitable for both roller and flat tappet valve trains."
 
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Discussion starter · #3 ·
All oil manufacturers say exactly the same thing and racing oils actually have too much ZDDP. I really need to make a write up on this.

The API SN standard says the same thing. That it is backwards compatible. But there are several experts that don't really agree. They know they are not backwards compatible to older pushrod motors and they suspect they are not backwards compatible for our. They believe that oil anti-wear additives other then ZDDP have not been totally tested for all vehicles. The standards are changing because of EPA regulations not because they are better for our motors.

Royal Purple calls their additive package proprietary. They don't publish it. They also don't make a 0w-30 oil. All I could find is a 0w-20 and 0w-40. One is too thin and the other too thick. The 0w-40 has a viscosity of 79.9 cS at 40*C and 14.3cS at 100*C. They make a 5w-30 that fits well but it still doesn't have the cold start protection of a 0w-30. If I were going to a 0w-40 oil it would be Mobil 1 European blend. It's a lot cheaper and I know it has sufficient anti-wear additives. It also fits out engine specs a little better with a viscosity of 75 cS at 40*C and 13.5 cS at 100*C.

Castrol doesn't publish their additive package either. PQIA tests show they have about the same package as Mobil 1. For one brand they are using a titanium additive to supplement the ZDDP. Other replacement supplements are boron and moly based. Only time will tell if they are adaquate for older engines. My car was manufactured when API SH standard was current. It was replaced by API SJ standard in 2001 which specified a maximum of around 1300 ppm phosphorus, 1300 ppm zinc and 151 ppm boron. Today's oils have half of that. Even though we have a modern OHC motor I'm beginning to wonder how low is too low.

I was wondering if anyone has tired the Rislone Oil Supplement?
 
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#5 ·
If you're wanting to maintain your 0W-30 viscosity, you might consider a ZDDP additive other than Rislone, as that will bump your numbers up a bit.
 
Discussion starter · #6 ·
mustangtedd said:
unless you have a flat tappet cam you don't need zddp
Click to expand...
That isn't entirely true. High spring pressure flat tappet motors produced in the 80s and before need more protection but all motors need anti-wear additives. Oil companies are trying to come up with alternatives to ZDDP using boron, moly, and even titanium. I haven't read much about titanium anti-wear additives but I know that Castrol has a brand with them. Tests have shown that the others are not entirely successful without the presence of ZDDP. The question isn't whether our motors need ZDDP. They do. The question is how much and do the new SN standard oils provide enough anti-wear protection.

---------- Post added at 10:37 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:30 AM ----------

Tang Stang said:
If you're wanting to maintain your 0W-30 viscosity, you might consider a ZDDP additive other than Rislone, as that will bump your numbers up a bit.
Click to expand...
I believe they have two brands: standard and race. I wouldn't want to use the race additive but the standard brand is supposed to be equivalent to a 20 grade oil. 3-5 ounces to 6 quarts of oil (180 ounces) wouldn't change the oil viscosity much.
 
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Discussion starter · #8 ·
Crimson said:
Eagle, if you've found any good source material on this topic I would definitely be interested in reading through it...
Click to expand...
I summerized my research and included all my references in this thread:
http://www.moddedmustangs.com/forums/99-04/408090-zddp-additive-required-our-oil.html

It goes hand in hand with the oil viscosity research I did last year:
http://www.moddedmustangs.com/forums/99-04/292127-grade-oil-should-you-use.html

Unless someone adds something I didn't find I intend to use Reslone ZDDP additive in with my next oil change. Oil and car companies are concerned with meeting government requirements for new cars. Our cars are 10 years old or older. They aren't really concerned about them.
 
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Discussion starter · #10 ·
I don't know where you got that. My owner's manual says 5w-30 Conventional oil. My car has had nothing but full-synthetic 5w-30 or 0w-30 oil in it. The timing chain cover was changed around the 150,000 mile mark and the timing chain tensioners showed very little wear.

Ford changed the recommendation in the US to 5w-20 to avoid EPA fleet mileage fines. A thinner oil gives ever so slightly better gas mileage. From what I understand the oil recommendation remained 5w-30 in Australia. You should read the "Which Grade Oil Should You Use" thread referenced in post #8. You might also want to read the Oil University articles on the Bob Is The Oil Guy website.

Link: Motor Oil 101 - Bob is the Oil Guy - Bob is the Oil Guy
 
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Discussion starter · #13 ·
mustangtedd said:
seems you have already made up your mind. the zddp reduction started with SM which pre dates your car
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No, the SM standard was for 2005. The SJ standard was the standard when my car was made in 2000. You are correct in that was the first standard that reduced phosphorus levels. It went from around 1200 ppm to 1000 ppm. SL became effective in 2001. SM was released in October 2004 for 2005. And SN was released in November 2010 for 2011.

My car had 65,000 miles on it when I bought it. All of those would have been using SL standard oil. I put about 90,000 more miles on it before I retired in 2010. Those miles would have been under the SM standard. But most of that oil was Quaker State full-synthetic 5w30 which still had around 800 ppm phosphorus. It was after I retired that I switched to Mobil 1 0w30 Advanced Fuel Economy which now has only 650 ppm under the SN standard. The reductions in phosphorus had nothing to do with engine wear. It was because the EPA dictated that catalytic convertors had to have a 120,000 mile warranty.

The new SN standard is suppose to be backwards compatible but a lot of engineers seem to doubt it. It might be perfectly good. But independent PQIA testing showed that most full-synthetic 5w30 oils have ZDDP levels below 700 ppm.

I had made up my mind to do something to add the ZDDP back. There are several options for doing that. The Reslone additive is only one of them. After I started this thread I found a site where users of Reslone gave it a rating of 5 out of 5 so I'm pretty sure I'm going to use it.
 
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Discussion starter · #14 ·
I have continued to research Reslone with ZDDP. I have found Jeep, Corvette, Nova and other forums where people have been using it. Some who own classic cars have been using it a couple of years and are very happy with the product. There are other products but this will allow me to get back to the API SL standard while running Mobil 1 0w-30.
 
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#15 ·
Eagle2000GT said:
I have continued to research Reslone with ZDDP. I have found Jeep, Corvette, Nova and other forums where people have been using it. Some who own classic cars have been using it a couple of years and are very happy with the product. There are other products but this will allow me to get back to the API SL standard while running Mobil 1 0w-30.
Click to expand...
Have you read any reports of the Reslone not mixing into the oil properly and not doing what it's supposed to do? That's the only thing I'm concerned about as far as using it for my next oil change.
 
Discussion starter · #16 ·
No. Actually the opposite. There are a lot of people using additives. A couple of common ones other than Reslone is STP and Lucas break in oil.

Amsoil and users of racing oil seem to be the ones saying that it (and all other after market additives) won't mix in. But they are the ones selling and using a more expensive competitive product. And a lot of classic car guy are using very heavy racing oil such as 15w-40 or 15w-50.

Now the advertisement: Rislone with Zinc is not a break in additive and should not be used for breaking in a motor. Break in additives are supposed to be changed fairly frequently and do not have the proper detergents. Rislone with Zinc should not be used in 2005 or newer vehicles. They have been designed for the lower ZDDP level. For 1997-2004 vehicles only a half bottle should be added. For older vehicles add a full bottle. That is all I remember.

I do not know for sure that our valve train will give out with the new lower levels of ZDDP. The classic car and high-power guys didn't know that theirs would either. Until it did. I'm not trying to sell Reslone. I'm just trying to protect our motors and I think this is cheap insurance.

Side note: I've psyched myself out over this. I could have sworn that I heard valve train rattle yesterday.

But, last year I made a thread because I had actual valve train clatter. It was as loud as an old Chevy motor I once had with a big cam, solid lifters and a .030 slap. It was weird. It made noise. I shut off the motor and opened the hood. Restarted, it made noise then went away before I could get under the hood. It never came back. People suggested it could be a bad oil filter. I don't really know.
 
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Eagle2000GT
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