If your tuner cant tune a blow through setup to work right then get a new tuner... thats ridiculous. If the piping is the right damned size, the maf is good, you should just be able to weld the flange in a straight section before the TB, tune it and be done. The fact that your tuner couldnt get a blow through setup to work with an 05+ maf tells me that you need a new tuner. A centri and a slot maf..... it doesnt get much easier to tune than that if you have installed it all correctly.... either the system was not designed correctly or your tuner is an idiot.

 

The 05 MAF was only temporary. He ended using the replacement VMP sensor for the blow through setup.

My tuner is considered one of the best in the country.

---------- Post added at 05:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:35 PM ----------

I'm mind of surprised that Tim couldn't get it figured out. He really does know his stuff. Maybe he is a little off due to what happened and I could see that. Go over on Cmc and make a thread about it. That might get some more attention and see what happens there. Also I know a lot of people are having good luck with geared up motorsports in new Lenox. Give them a call

I wanted to post this here since he is a sponsor on CMC. I wanted some unbiased feedback.

 

I would think as long as the return line is far enough from the maf it should be ok. But it's been awhile since I ran FI on anything and I did the draw through for awhile which worked fine with a bypass down stream of the maf, but I eventually just went blow through to ditch all the extra plumbing with no issues. I really can't fathom why the blow though wouldn't work. It sounds like the guy was being helpful but I think I would shop around for someone else to take a crack at it.

 

I'm mind of surprised that Tim couldn't get it figured out. He really does know his stuff. Maybe he is a little off due to what happened and I could see that. Go over on Cmc and make a thread about it. That might get some more attention and see what happens there. Also I know a lot of people are having good luck with geared up motorsports in new Lenox. Give them a call

 

Why do people like blow through? Seems like more trouble than it's worth.

 

I'm sure you've heard the tial 50mm in action right? I went 600$ out of my way just to have that sound......and it was worth it......sounds even better in person! In fact I miss the sound so much that I will be doing the tial on my coyote/paxton setup.

:drool: miss so much

 

I have blow through with my Vortech. Like the others, find a new tuner if they can't tune a blow through set up.

 

Bottom line, try another tuner. I went through the same exact thing. Thought it was a bad maf but just wound up taking a little more time and finesse in the tune.

Try Keith at logan motorsports in Elgin. They had it figured in an hour. I tried Tim first as well but it just didn't work out. That's not to say he isn't a great tuner, sometimes there are just things that can't be figured out over an email.

Here's my thread

http://www.moddedmustangs.com/forums/99-04/296563-email-tune-bad-maf.html

And the follow up

http://www.moddedmustangs.com/forums/99-04/297391-dyno-fuel-pump-update.html

 

Holy crap! Can't believe you went through that much with Tim. Also can't believe he came out to your house. I had absolutely no issues after converting, but his shop did not do the work. He only tuned it. Why did you get a separate iat? The HPX maf has a built in iat. Only reason you would do a separate one would be for Meth.

 

I have a 99. My IAT is not integrated.

 

Blow through is worth the trouble because a blow through setup will have significantly better throttle response and in general they drive better IMO. The blower will run cooler and your IAT will be lower due to not recirculating hot air over and over.

Draw through setups work great on low boost builds but get the boost up and you will see more and more issues. I've always though Tim was a hack tuner and car builder... this just proves it.... 3 months and he couldnt do what 1000000 people before him have done? Give me a break.

 

I know a few draw-thru cars making 800+hp with a factory MAF and drives great with outstanding throttle response. There is a lot of distance between my MAF and my TB. My throttle response is nice and snappy. It's all in the tune. Recirculating hot air? How does 10-15*F below ambient sound? :thumb: What hot air? lol

My tuner has done quite a bit of testing between draw-thru and blow-thru and hasn't shown any better results from blow-thru. Draw-thru made 436whp, blow-thru 437whp... but draw-thru did it on factory MAF without a MAFia and was just as mannered on the street.

It really is just personal preference.

 

I had a draw through system that ran 50 degrees below ambient at part throttle and idle, 30 degrees below ambient at wot..... been there done that. It ran so cold it would accumulate moisturize in the intercooler from condensation... and it didn't make anymore hp that running 25 above ambient.

Draw through is easier and more forgiving to tune but a properly setup blow through will have better tip in fuel response that is much more predictable across the entire Rpm band....My experience... I've tuned more of each than I can count. Yes they both drive well but run a dataogger with fast enough scan time and you will see the inefficiencies.

 

One thing about mafs and flow meters to consider is distance from bends. Some manufactures have strict standards like at least 3 x Flow meter diameter in length from first bends to flow meter and at least 2 x diameter length after flow meter to next bend.
Point being... how the maf is installed can cause some unstable readings and may be why the drive ability is goofy.

 

Here are some pics of the final draw through setup:

 

Do you have any pictures of the blow thru setup? Something had to be installed wrong because there's a lot of guys running the hpx, also the vmp housing wouldn't have anything to do with it, it's designed for that maf. I'm running the vmp housing/ hpx maf and my tuner had my car tuned and out the door in an hour or so. I also done the install myself so that I knew it was done right.

Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App

 

No, I only saw the blow through setup briefly. I unfortunately did not get any pictures.

 

If this was my situation I would've pulled my car out after #7 on your original post and would've taken it to another local tuner like Mike Post to look over. If he or another tuner would've been able to get it to run right then you would be entitled to a refund for the cost of the tune at least. I now Tim works with Mike and Bob to figure out issues so it would've been helpful to know if he possibly reached out to another tuner for any advice. I fortunately have had the car tuned by Tim three times in the last 4.5 years and have not had any issues.

 

The problem was that the car was 100 miles away and not drivable.

 

Where you are currently running your BPV. Is that where you were running your BOV? After the intercooler? If so where did you have your MAF for the blow-through configuration? Or did you just re-do everything in order to go back to a draw-through?

 

Everything got moved for draw through. For blow through, the Tial BOV was right after the blower. The VMP sensor and housing was almost where you see my mini race valve now. He later welded the sensor farther up closer to the throttle body.

The only thing I don't recall is how he had the hose out of the IAC running. I don't recall seeing it go to the intake pipe right before the throttle body like I have seen on other setups.

 

Bingo... He had the iac pulling unmetered air.... explains the maf count issue...what a dumbass

 

Yikes, I see what you are saying, that's why the MAF was reading "nothing" at idle.

Pretty funny (or not so funny) that the tuner was blaming the problem on the MAF.

 

Just to clarify, he never blamed the MAF for the bad readings. The original VMP MAF had an issue, but it got replaced with a new VMP MAF. He thought the VMP housing may have been causing some turbulance, and that is when he suggested buying the weld in flange and welding it directly into the intake piping. He did that, but it did not work either.

Basically he said the problem was that he could not get any MAF readings when he would put the car in gear at idle.

He may have had the IAC hose hooked up correctly, but I cannot remember where it went. I do know that I do not remember it shooting straight left to the intake pipe like I see on other installs.

 

If your maf and bov were situated just like that pic that would most certainly be an issue. I converted draw thru to blow thru. Welded maf right before IAC hose on the straight and gave myself 8in between Maf and bpv...no good. I need to get rid of it and re weld right after IC. Idle and part throttle my readings bounce because of the air backing up

 

OP, I do not know why he could not tune your car in a blow-through configuration especially since he was doing the install. Hundreds and hundreds of tuners in the US can. That is how ProCharger comes from the factory. Perhaps he is just more comfortable tuning a Vortech draw-through. A lot of tuners have their own personal preferences and they will tell you other configurations will not work because they don't want to mess with them.

 

I think the suspicion is that the IAC was pulling air before the maf on the blow through setup.

 

My AIT sensor was separate on my 2001 GT and I bought the VMP slot style. Integrated it in the MAF with the pigtail from VMP. Worked great and cleaned things up.