PCV Valve on 2005

DiMora · Dec 16, 2009

Credit for these images belongs to TacoBill at MustangForums. You can see the integrated PCV valve - it is the curved pipe thing located on the underside of the driver's side valve cover:

Nasty · Dec 16, 2009

Has anyone ever seen the actual half way valve that the S197 uses fail? Honestly.

07 STROKER · Dec 16, 2009

all they would have had to do was make all those press fittings fasteners ...then we could get in there and change it out

Black Baby II · Dec 16, 2009

07 STROKER said:
all they would have had to do was make all those press fittings fasteners ...then we could get in there and change it out

Or do it the old fashened way and spray the **** out of it with a good degreaser, if it is in fact clogged or hanging up this will break it loose.

Buying a whole new cover is bullshit ! Gotta be a better way if this is the true problem for the OP.

UrbanRedneck · Dec 16, 2009

Dimora got it right. It is not your typical PCV valve. There are two PCV lines though, just like efery car. The one on the passanger cover is to let filtered fresh air into the crankcase, the one on the driver side cover attached to the intake manifold is the one that provides vacuum to the PCV system.

If your problem was the PCV, and you switched to a breather, it wouls stop the oil consumption, but you'd have a lot of oil come out of the breathers. But I don't think it is your pcv for two reasons. One being that I have never seen a bad PCV cause oil consumption on any car, and I have not heard of it really happening on any modern cars unless their maintenance is totally neglected. Actually, PCV valves almost never need to be replaced, the old addage that it is part of a tune up is BS. The other reason is that if a stuck PCV was causing oil consumption it would be because of one of two reasons. !. If the valve was stuck open, oil would be drawn through the vacuum line into the intake. But in your picture, that tube looks pretty clean. Oil would be dripping out of the vacuum hose when you pulled it off. So I don't think that's it. 2. If the valve was stuck closed and excessive crankcase pressure built up, pushing oil past the rings. If that was the case, then there would more than likely be oil pushing out of the fresh air inlet on the passanger valve cover, which looks clean. Or, seals would be blown out from the pressure. If you run the engine, revv it a few times, and shut it off, and take the oil cap off, you'll hear the pressure release if there is a buildup.

Your issue is more than likely elsewhere. When they said that the compression test was "good" what does that mean? What were the readings on all 8 cylinders? What were the leakdown readings? Does this shop know modern cars, or are they all old-tech guys? I ask that because on an old 350, 165 PSI cranking compression is fine. On some modern engines, they want MUCH higher (on a Honda engine, less than 200 PSI you have a problem). Did they look at overall compression, or did they just look for a difference between cylinders? Did they do a wet test? There is also a lot of room for "opinion" on what is acceptible leakdown.

If you push open your throttle body, is there a shitload of oil build up inside the intake? Is oil seeping out anywhere?

Nasty · Dec 16, 2009

Thank you Urban! This has been my point the whole time. I didn't think I needed two type an essay but I thought wrong. Very well done, reps! Like I said from the beginning, the S197 doesn't use your typical PCV valve. I believe compression should be around 180 psi without looking it up on Google..

DiMora · Dec 16, 2009

NastyStang113 said:
Has anyone ever seen the actual half way valve that the S197 uses fail? Honestly.

Nope. Not ever. And if it was gummed up, some engine cleaner / degreaser should fix it up.

DiMora · Dec 16, 2009

UrbanRedneck said:
Dimora got it right. It is not your typical PCV valve. There are two PCV lines though, just like efery car. The one on the passanger cover is to let filtered fresh air into the crankcase, the one on the driver side cover attached to the intake manifold is the one that provides vacuum to the PCV system.

If your problem was the PCV, and you switched to a breather, it wouls stop the oil consumption, but you'd have a lot of oil come out of the breathers. But I don't think it is your pcv for two reasons. One being that I have never seen a bad PCV cause oil consumption on any car, and I have not heard of it really happening on any modern cars unless their maintenance is totally neglected. Actually, PCV valves almost never need to be replaced, the old addage that it is part of a tune up is BS. The other reason is that if a stuck PCV was causing oil consumption it would be because of one of two reasons. !. If the valve was stuck open, oil would be drawn through the vacuum line into the intake. But in your picture, that tube looks pretty clean. Oil would be dripping out of the vacuum hose when you pulled it off. So I don't think that's it. 2. If the valve was stuck closed and excessive crankcase pressure built up, pushing oil past the rings. If that was the case, then there would more than likely be oil pushing out of the fresh air inlet on the passanger valve cover, which looks clean. Or, seals would be blown out from the pressure. If you run the engine, revv it a few times, and shut it off, and take the oil cap off, you'll hear the pressure release if there is a buildup.

Your issue is more than likely elsewhere. When they said that the compression test was "good" what does that mean? What were the readings on all 8 cylinders? What were the leakdown readings? Does this shop know modern cars, or are they all old-tech guys? I ask that because on an old 350, 165 PSI cranking compression is fine. On some modern engines, they want MUCH higher (on a Honda engine, less than 200 PSI you have a problem). Did they look at overall compression, or did they just look for a difference between cylinders? Did they do a wet test? There is also a lot of room for "opinion" on what is acceptible leakdown.

If you push open your throttle body, is there a shitload of oil build up inside the intake? Is oil seeping out anywhere?

:withhomo

SKRAPR · Dec 17, 2009

Wow!

Guys . . . thank you for all of the info. Reps to you.

I did take the car back into the shop tonight to have it looked at again . . . and have the tune tweaked a little to see if the idle would calm down. The shop seems legit. They specialize in late model Mustangs. Hell, the owner drives an '05.

Urban Red - I'm going to check out the intake to see if there is any oil build up over the next couple of days. The shop did say that there was some build up on the sensor the other day when they did the valve seals . . . but they cleaned it off. So, if I get some in the next couple of days, I'll know I'm getting some kind of blow-back.

I also asked the shop about running the breather "open looped" system. The owner said that he did not recommend it because the air flow could then not be monitored and adjusted properly with the tune. However, the guy that actually does the tuning and road around with me while for the data-logs said that he thought it had it's advantages . . . but required you to tweak the tune a lot more with a little trial and error. The breather looks cool . . . but if the PVC is not the problem . . . I would rather concentrate my money on the oil burning issue problem

DiMora - I think I'll test the rubber hose trick as well to see if that works

Again guys, thanks for all of your help!

Nasty · Dec 17, 2009

SKRAPR said:
I also asked the shop about running the breather "open looped" system. The owner said that he did not recommend it because the air flow could then not be monitored and adjusted properly with the tune. However, the guy that actually does the tuning and road around with me while for the data-logs said that he thought it had it's advantages . . . but required you to tweak the tune a lot more with a little trial and error. The breather looks cool . . . but if the PVC is not the problem . . . I would rather concentrate my money on the oil burning issue problem

Well the guy at the shop is completely wrong.. Running breathers does not allow un-metered air into the system. Running only one breather on one valve cover would. Running a catch can on the wrong side would do the same thing. Also, who's tuning it? I can tell you that you do not need to do any tuning for breathers either.

UrbanRedneck · Dec 17, 2009

The PCM is looking for a certain amount of vacuum "leak" to account for the PCV system (PCV is considered a calibrated vacuum leak), but if you unhooked the lines and plugged off the port on the intake manifold, the amound of increase in the vacuum would be negligible, and I highly doubt it'd need any tuning to account for it.

SKRAPR · Dec 18, 2009

NastyStang113 said:
Well the guy at the shop is completely wrong.. Running breathers does not allow un-metered air into the system. Running only one breather on one valve cover would. Running a catch can on the wrong side would do the same thing. Also, who's tuning it? I can tell you that you do not need to do any tuning for breathers either.

So, running an open-loop system with a breather has the capability of being monitored. Yeah, I mentioned it . . . and he just said, "no, you don't want to do that". Something about it being uncontrollable by the tune. It's open . . . so I guess you can't control it? I don't know.

It looks a lot sweeter than the stock oil cap and hoses sticking off it . . . I'll give you that. What does it do for the car, though? Is it legal in NC? I thought it was part of the emissions requirement or something.

The shop is Custom Performance, which is right next to Lowe's Motor Speedway. They seem legit? Not telling you're wrong . . . not telling you they're right . . . just questioning. Anyway, all I know is my car is still ****ed up!!!!! I hate that I just spent money on valve seals . . . and the problem is still there. I love my car on somedays. Other days I want to just drive it over a cliff.

Nasty · Dec 18, 2009

Yes, it'll be fine. No unmetered air is being pushed into the motor. I was tuned when I made 524 rwhp, than put the breathers on, than re-dyno'd at a show, and nothing was off. I wouldn't be running it without it being spot on. My motor is a stock longblock! I'm not going to take any extra risk so you can trust me on this. However with all of that said, breathers are not going to pass emission since you're venting those fumes to the atmosphere. I'd still run them and just swap the PCM system back on. All you're talking about is three screws and a few vacuum caps to swap it.

UrbanRedneck · Dec 18, 2009

I'm beginning to doubt your shop's competancy.

You are correct that the breathers are illegal by an emmisions standpoint because cars are required to have closed PCV systems, but it is not really monitored in any way so the only way that they'd know is if your state does visual inspections.

elio266 · Feb 9, 2021

SKRAPR said:
My car is burning oil and idling rough. It rpm's seem to hang-up sometimes around 2k when I push in the clutch. And the oil consumption has been noticeably bad for the past 4 months. The car has NEVER gone through this much oil. At first, it only seemed like it was burning it on start up. So I took the car in. They did a compression leak-down . . . it checked out fine. I had them replace the valve seals . . . which they confirmed had some issues. That was two weeks ago. Got the car back and it "seemed" to be better. But about a week ago . . . it all starts up again. Puffing smoke on start-up . . . bad idle, etc.

So now I'm thinking . . . PCV Valve? However, the shop told me that the PCV is built into the valve cover on 2005 models and you have to buy an entire new valve cover to replace it. Are you ****ing shiting me??? That sounds completely insane!!! It's like making your damn oil filter a permanent piece of the engine when you know that it will eventually need to be replaced. If Ford really did this, I must say . . . somebody is a ****ing dumb ass!!!

Can anybody confirm that this is actually true? If so, WHY?

This is true I just replaced my valve cover for the same issue it’s the driver side one btw.

PCV Valve on 2005

DiMora

Nasty

07 STROKER

Black Baby II

UrbanRedneck

Nasty

DiMora

DiMora

SKRAPR

Nasty

UrbanRedneck

SKRAPR

Nasty

UrbanRedneck

elio266

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