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How do I set timing/firing order on 1974 460?

21K views 9 replies 3 participants last post by  African_Mustang  
#1 · (Edited)
As of right now, I am taking an automotive vocational class, it's hands on which is plus.

Long story short, I asked the instructor could we swap out a Chrysler 318 for a Ford 460 (both are on stands).

So after trouble shooting all hands pointed at the ignition.

Like a dummy, I pulled all the spark plug wires :facepalm: to test spark and now I do not know which wire goes to which cylinder.

I think this is the firing order is.

1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8

So how do I put each spark plug wire to the correct cylinder so it ignites with the firing order?

Also how do I set base timing as well? I cranked cylinder #1 with a breaker bar to TDC and and the rotor was off :headscratcher:.
I'm guessing the rotor is supposed to be on cylinder #1 when near TDC right?


So I rotated the distributor cap to try to get the rotor to fire on cylinder #1, I thought the rotor was supposed to be directly on spark plug #1. There was too much obstruction.

I think I REALLY screwed up the timing, I really have no idea what to do at this point.

I want to get this engine up and running. Any ideas on what to do?
 
#2 ·
Make sure when you set #1 piston to TDC that it is on the compression stroke (both valves closed) then working counter clockwise just route the wires like the attached diagram.
Image


Good luck
 
#4 ·
You want the valve springs not compressed, compressed means the rocker arm is pushing down on the valve to open it.
 
#6 ·
you can also bump the engine over with a remote start switch, remove #1 plug and put your finger in the plug hole (remove plug wire btw), when your finger blows out the plug hole on #1 you are now on #1 compression. Look at the dizzy, it should be pointing at #1 plug in the cap. If not, make it so.
Keep in mind #1 on the cap can start anyplace, back in the day when everything had vac advance we used to move #1 around (the dizzy) so the vac unit would miss the hi rise intake runners, when we went to adjust timing. Then proceed to wire the dizzy to the correct firing order, keeping in mind that there needs to be some "wiggle room" to move the dizzy to adjust the timing. Now, if you're instructor is picky, you'll need to set it all up like the factory, but once you've established #1 is at TDC comp, it should be no problem to pull and drop the dizzy where you need it.
 
#9 ·
you can also bump the engine over with a remote start switch, remove #1 plug and put your finger in the plug hole (remove plug wire btw), when your finger blows out the plug hole on #1 you are now on #1 compression. Look at the dizzy, it should be pointing at #1 plug in the cap. If not, make it so.
Keep in mind #1 on the cap can start anyplace, back in the day when everything had vac advance we used to move #1 around (the dizzy) so the vac unit would miss the hi rise intake runners, when we went to adjust timing. Then proceed to wire the dizzy to the correct firing order, keeping in mind that there needs to be some "wiggle room" to move the dizzy to adjust the timing. Now, if you're instructor is picky, you'll need to set it all up like the factory, but once you've established #1 is at TDC comp, it should be no problem to pull and drop the dizzy where you need it.
This makes sense, before I rearganged the plugs wires, they were actually labled. However, some of the plug wires were superficialy on the wrong cylinder(labling was off), but in reality they were actually in their rightful place.

I was trying to line up the #1 on the cap to rotor, but now matter were I turned the dizzy it was off.

It makes sense now. Cylinder #5 on the dizzy is acutally firing cylinder #1. So I have to start after the 1 marking on the dizzy. :facepalm:

The plugs are also fouled with carbon, however the 318's plugs were in the same condition and the engine always fired.

Also I do not know the history of it, it's in the shop for other can learn the basics on ignition, heating and cooling (thermostat) etc.

The class I am taking is vocational automotive training, I love it so far. It was either this or something along the lines of art, mythology or some other class that i'm not interested in.

I'll check it out tomorrow morining.

EDIT:When I first checked the plugs 3 of them did not belong in the engine, so I cross reffrenced them some other random plugs. Also the engine has a few mitch matched spark plug wires as well if that matters.

I'll check for broken teeth and a worn distributor gear, who knows, maybe the balancer has shifted.
 
#7 ·
I tried to start it today, and it did not start. As a matter fact I sprayed carb cleaner into it and all it did was stall momentarily and make a soft puffing sound.

Before I rewired it, it actually ignited and you could hear the power stroke.

Also is the dizzy the same thing as the distributor? So if it's off just, force it by hand on the correct cylinder? I tried that, but there was stuff in the way of the dizzy.

I'll try again tomorrow, if not, then definitely the day after.

P.S. I really appreciate the help!
 
#8 ·
Still sounds like the timing is off, if you are sure you had the #1cyl at TDC and put the wires on in the correct order, then the timing chain might have jumped a tooth from stretching or there might be a broke tooth on the timing gears.

What is the history of this motor??? Why is it in the shop??? it's easier to diagnose the problem if I know what brought it in to be worked on.

Also, check the gear on the bottom of the distributor, some times on the 460 dist the pin that hold the gear in place will shear off and it won't spin the rotor correctly or at all.

If you can take some pics of your work so we can see exactly what you are doing.
 
#10 ·
So I finally got it started! Well barely.
Only 1 or 2 cylinders on the right bank are firing, the spark plugs are carbon fouled and mitch matched (non oem brands), which is probally why it is behaving the way it is I guess.

Were getting plugs and gasoline for it soon.

I'll work on it throughout the week and see what happens...