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Procharged mach 1. All kinds of problems!

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#21 ·
GT o1 said:
Agreed you should learn. But when you're paying someone for their expertise that all goes out the window. At the end of the day op is at a shitty shop. No true tuner would ever do what they are doing or say they can't figure out a wideband.

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I agree 100% with you guys on this one, the shop sounds pretty lame.

I guess I'm a hard head on this issue, I'm rarely happy with any work a shop does on a car, I try to do everything I possibly can myself. Especially on my personal car I really hate when anybody else even puts their hands on my car, smog checks are a very painful experience for me.

One d***head doing a smog check on my wife's car jammed a floor jack under the side of the car to check the cats without putting it in the right place on the subframe and I almost went postal on him.

I know its not practical for everybody but I'm a hard core do it yourselfer.
 
#22 ·
CalBoy101 said:
I agree 100% with you guys on this one, the shop sounds pretty lame.

I guess I'm a hard head on this issue, I'm rarely happy with any work a shop does on a car, I try to do everything I possibly can myself. Especially on my personal car I really hate when anybody else even puts their hands on my car, smog checks are a very painful experience for me.

One d***head doing a smog check on my wife's car jammed a floor jack under the side of the car to check the cats without putting it in the right place on the subframe and I almost went postal on him.

I know its not practical for everybody but I'm a hard core do it yourselfer.
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Agree on every point you made

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#24 ·
woodrow5.0 said:
Modifying the hat for one of the kurgan pumps takes a total of about 10 minutes to do and i have had great results out of mine
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Doesn't even take that long I have one too a total of 5mins top

OP time for a new tuner try joe at trick tuners

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#25 ·
CalBoy101 said:
xandraxal, I hear you about having the tuner fix it but in a FI car it can really help you to be able to keep an eye on the car yourself and catch problems before something goes boom.

If you already have a handheld tuner pretty much all of them can data log and its worth learning how to do it, its not that hard.

Another way to do this is to use one of Aeroforce gauges from Aeroforce Technology Inc | Welcome

You can set those up to read out the fuel pressure parameters I mentioned in the earlier post as well as your intake air temp, engine temp, etc.
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I understand. I have my own handheld. I know how to datalog, I also keep an eye on my gauges at all times. My point is that this guy has been paid to do a job and he should know how to do it, op shouldn't HAVE to do it himself. I don't pay a maid to clean my house and then go behind her when she leaves to clean everything she missed. It's the principle of the matter.

OP, what wide band do you use? I have the innovate and mine jumped around like crazy when I first installed it. My tuner told me I probably switched 2 wires around which in essence made it behave more like a narrow band. I switched the wires and viola, no more crazy jumpy erratic wide band. Just a suggestion
 
Discussion starter · #26 ·
Thanks guys...
I think you're right about one thing without question.
I chose the wrong shop.
He says I'm in it to him for $900 dollars with the parts he has used and the time he has taken.
The shop came highly recommended from the area, being at a ford dealership, I figured it was legit. They have had the car since tuesday, and each time he called me he told me it was getting worse.
I'll bitch and complain about the money, then find a real tuner.

---------- Post added at 10:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:59 PM ----------

xandraxal said:
I understand. I have my own handheld. I know how to datalog, I also keep an eye on my gauges at all times. My point is that this guy has been paid to do a job and he should know how to do it, op shouldn't HAVE to do it himself. I don't pay a maid to clean my house and then go behind her when she leaves to clean everything she missed. It's the principle of the matter.

OP, what wide band do you use? I have the innovate and mine jumped around like crazy when I first installed it. My tuner told me I probably switched 2 wires around which in essence made it behave more like a narrow band. I switched the wires and viola, no more crazy jumpy erratic wide band. Just a suggestion
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I've got the AEM Digital wideband.

---------- Post added at 10:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:08 PM ----------

limited said:
has the compression ever been checked? leakdown performed?
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I don't believe the compression has ever been checked.

---------- Post added at 10:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:09 PM ----------

He sounds convinced that my MAF or computer is pegging and cutting fuel above 5,000. But he can't explain to me anything to do.
I've asked him about fuel delivery and he just keeps on going back to electronics.
The Intune is mine. I'll take a look at data logging myself.

---------- Post added at 10:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:11 PM ----------

Anybody know of a good tuning shop in downstate Illinois or Chicago area?
 
#28 ·
Hedges4 said:
He sounds convinced that my MAF or computer is pegging and cutting fuel above 5,000. But he can't explain to me anything to do.
I've asked him about fuel delivery and he just keeps on going back to electronics.
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You're joking, right? A tuner that cannot tell if the MAF has pegged or not. Again, I don't know anything about the stock Mach I MAF but you are probably well above 400 rwhp. If it is similar to a stock GTs MAF then you most likely have pegged it. My stock GT MAF pegged around 360-370 rwhp. Replacing it with a similar MAF won't do anything. You most likely need an after-market MAF or a Diablosport MAFia (used with your stock MAF).

There is supposed to be a top-notch shop just south of Chicago. I just don't remember its name but send a PM to Blownstang. I believe he had his car tuned there.

---------- Post added at 11:10 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:57 AM ----------

I did a little searching. His car was tuned by Tim Barth at Mr. Norm's Garage in Rockford. You might give them a call. I don't know them but Blownstang says good things about them. Their phone number is 815-962-9775.
 
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#29 ·
Eagle2000GT said:
You're joking, right? A tuner that cannot tell if the MAF has pegged or not. Again, I don't know anything about the stock Mach I MAF but you are probably well above 400 rwhp. If it is similar to a stock GTs MAF then you most likely have pegged it. My stock GT MAF pegged around 360-370 rwhp. Replacing it with a similar MAF won't do anything. You most likely need an after-market MAF or a Diablosport MAFia (used with your stock MAF).

There is supposed to be a top-notch shop just south of Chicago. I just don't remember its name but send a PM to Blownstang. I believe he had his car tuned there.

---------- Post added at 11:10 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:57 AM ----------

I did a little searching. His car was tuned by Tim Barth at Mr. Norm's Garage in Rockford. You might give them a call. I don't know them but Blownstang says good things about them. Their phone number is 815-962-9775.
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Exactly, the shop either has no idea what they're doing or they are half assing and trying to make some money off someone who trusted them to fix a problem. This is exactly why I refuse to pay someone to do my work. Tuning is one thing, but to pay a shop to blindly throw your money at a problem without taking the time to diagnose is ridiculous

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#30 ·
GT o1 said:
What kind of half ass shop is doing this? They're throwing money and parts at it instead of diagnosing and elimination potential issues. I wouldn't let them touch the car

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+2. Sounds like a total hack.

Hedges4 said:
Thanks guys...
I think you're right about one thing without question.
I chose the wrong shop.
He says I'm in it to him for $900 dollars with the parts he has used and the time he has taken.
The shop came highly recommended from the area, being at a ford dealership, I figured it was legit. They have had the car since tuesday, and each time he called me he told me it was getting worse.
I'll bitch and complain about the money, then find a real tuner.

He sounds convinced that my MAF or computer is pegging and cutting fuel above 5,000. But he can't explain to me anything to do.
I've asked him about fuel delivery and he just keeps on going back to electronics.
The Intune is mine. I'll take a look at data logging myself.
Click to expand...
Recommendations mean nothing. The #1 recommended shop around here did my transmission on another car and was the most incompetent bunch of unprofessional half-wits I have ever encountered.

I would get that car out of their shop ASAP, even if you have to trailer it elsewhere.

Anyone should be able to tell if the MAF is pegged. Just monitor MAF counts/voltage and you can tell in an instant.

It's probably not the ECM considering the ECM ignition limit is around 7500.

It sounds like this tuner has no ****ing idea what he's doing. If it's throwing codes, check the codes. If it's going lean, they should know if the MAF/injectors are matched to the tune, and should be able to monitor FRP, and FPDC. It's not that hard.

Image
 
#31 ·
Hedges4 said:
Gentlemen,

New to the forum. Wish I could post this under better circumstances.
Here are the details:

Procharged with a p1sc for my 03 mach 1

Started running lean and took to dyno. The shop said the car is missing and thought it was plugs, replaced, no change

Thought it was mass air flow, replaced, runs worse.

Now they want to replace the computer because it's missing so bad.

Has anyone ever ran into this kind of thing?

Looking for any help!
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these are statements that I was concerned about
 
#32 ·
I agree with what the other guys are saying, this shop sounds totally incompetent and it sounds like they replaced parts that didn't need replacing.

Here's what I'd so about this.

First get back all the original parts they replaced, its sounds like there was probably nothing wrong with the MAF.

If they insist on payment for this hack work I'd pay them with a credit card and then call the credit card company and tell them you were charged for work that was clearly defective and fraudulent and tell them you want the charge reversed.

Tell the credit card company that you are fully willing to return the parts they installed as have found that they weren't needed and you were fraudulently charged for them.

A lot of credit card holders don't realize how strong your rights are to do this, if you can document that the work was defective, and another shops opinion on this is good enough (and I'll write this opinion for you if you need it), you can get your money back.
 
Discussion starter · #33 ·
I'm going to pick the car up tomorrow.

Definitely fed up with it.

---------- Post added at 08:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:27 PM ----------

The MAF sensor he installed was a Lightning.
Said once he installed it, the car ran worse.
Leads me to believe, WTF
 
#34 ·
Hedges4 said:
I'm going to pick the car up tomorrow.

Definitely fed up with it.

---------- Post added at 08:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:27 PM ----------

The MAF sensor he installed was a Lightning.
Said once he installed it, the car ran worse.
Leads me to believe, WTF
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Did he even calibrate the maf and injectors? Lightning mafs ping relatively easy as well. Good choice picking the Car up. Like state use the credit card and dispute charges. Post up and we'll all try to help as best we can

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#35 ·
The Lightning has a different scale output than the stock MAF. The car has to be specifically tuned for it or it will run poorly. The computer is adding the wrong amount of fuel.

I'm not a tuner and a Mach I may be different but if I remember correctly the stock GT's MAF is capable of sending out a 0-9v signal. The GT's computer is only capable of receiving 0-5v from the MAF. Since it cannot tell if more air is passing through the MAF it stops adding fuel at 5v and the motor goes lean. That happened to my car around 360 rwph. That is when the MAF signal passed 5v. A Lightning MAF has a wider scale. It doesn't hit 5v until around 425-430 rwhp. So for every 1v output a lot more air is moving through the MAF. But, unless the car is tuned for the Lightning MAF the computer still doesn't know to add fuel. In very general terms, you might be getting enough air for 425 rwhp but you would be getting the fuel for 360 rwhp. And with the Lightning MAF and a stock tune that would be true throughout the entire rpm range.

I suspect that your Mach I will be making in excess of 425-430 rwhp. A lot of guys with built 2v running that kind of power and a Lightning MAF have had to also add a Diablosport MAFia (which can also be used with the stock MAF). It re-scales the output even further. My MAFia is set on the lowest level but at its highest level it is capable of almost 1000 rwhp. Again, the car has to be specifically tuned for each setting.
 
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Discussion starter · #36 ·
Eagle2000GT said:
The Lightning has a different scale output than the stock MAF. The car has to be specifically tuned for it or it will run poorly. The computer is adding the wrong amount of fuel.

I'm not a tuner and a Mach I may be different but if I remember correctly the stock GT's MAF is capable of sending out a 0-9v signal. The GT's computer is only capable of receiving 0-5v from the MAF. Since it cannot tell if more air is passing through the MAF it stops adding fuel at 5v and the motor goes lean. That happened to my car around 360 rwph. That is when the MAF signal passed 5v. A Lightning MAF has a wider scale. It doesn't hit 5v until around 425-430 rwhp. So for every 1v output a lot more air is moving through the MAF. But, unless the car is tuned for the Lightning MAF the computer still doesn't know to add fuel. In very general terms, you might be getting enough air for 425 rwhp but you would be getting the fuel for 360 rwhp. And with the Lightning MAF and a stock tune that would be true throughout the entire rpm range.

I suspect that your Mach I will be making in excess of 425-430 rwhp. A lot of guys with built 2v running that kind of power and a Lightning MAF have had to also add a Diablosport MAFia (which can also be used with the stock MAF). It re-scales the output even further. My MAFia is set on the lowest level but at its highest level it is capable of almost 1000 rwhp. Again, the car has to be specifically tuned for each setting.
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I like this posting. I think this is what is going on, from the little information I got from the guy at the shop.

---------- Post added at 05:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:50 PM ----------

"Hey Matt, I have no additional input about your Mustang. I agree, you could
end up with a lot of dollars invested to resolve your cars condition.
Anytime the concern does not show itself easily, the cost for the hunt and
search diagnosis can become extensive. I will put it back as it was, but I
need some time to work
the car into the service schedule. Most likely I will need the call through
Tuesday. Let me know if that doesn't work for you. Please stay in touch."

Email I got from tuner today.
 
#37 ·
Who did your tune? sorry if you said it already, But You can talk to Mike Post at dyno tune MP(he most likely will do my tune if i dont get it done by trick tuners), he does great work and so far from talking to him/seeing peoples cars that he tuned he does killer work. Another option is Tim at Mr. Norms Garage, again i have heard mostly good things about them. One shop i would stay the hell away from is Anderson Ford, I talked to Danny their and he seemed to ba a arrogant dick, and he wanted $650 for without parts to build my rearend

http://www.dynotunemp.com/
http://www.deansperformance.com/
another good shop is deans performance, Its hard to get an appointment at the shop but thats because Hans does A+ work, he will find out why your car is missing and then can have Kurgan motorsports tune it
 
Discussion starter · #38 ·
condor123 said:
Who did your tune? sorry if you said it already, But You can talk to Mike Post at dyno tune MP(he most likely will do my tune if i dont get it done by trick tuners), he does great work and so far from talking to him/seeing peoples cars that he tuned he does killer work. Another option is Tim at Mr. Norms Garage, again i have heard mostly good things about them. One shop i would stay the hell away from is Anderson Ford, I talked to Danny their and he seemed to ba a arrogant dick, and he wanted $650 for without parts to build my rearend

Dynotune MP - Tuning, Performance Parts and More!
Deans Performance - Home
another good shop is deans performance, Its hard to get an appointment at the shop but thats because Hans does A+ work, he will find out why your car is missing and then can have Kurgan motorsports tune it
Click to expand...
Ha, that's where I went. Fantastic. :(
 
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