The stock oil pressure gauge is a dummy gauge anyway. I want to say it reads normal until it drops to about 5psi.

 

Id start it and listen before i put money into another motor. It could be something stupid. Let us help u diagnose it first


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what sounds will i be looking for?

 

Knocking or any unusual noise. Upload a video of it running and we can help determine if its making any funny noises


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I feel like if you had absolutely zero oil pressure you would know by now.

Check your oil. Is it glittery? You can also cut open your filter and check for bearing material or other metal.

Usually if you have no oil pressure you know pretty quick, and pretty definitively. Lots of knocking and tapping.

I would first connect an analog gauge and verify oil pressure.

 

i checked my oil on the dipstick and it didnt APPEAR glittery and it had been running for lets say 5 minutes.

it was difficult to hear any noise because it is running open headers.

i will cut open the filter but im not ready to do that just yet. will wait on my oil pressure gauge.

would it be safe to run it anymore? the heads looked pretty dry when i peered into the oil fill hole.

 

I don't think we can say it's safe without doing any of the previously mentioned checks. Otherwise you're relying on sound, and if it starts knocking/tapping, it's already too late.

Not sure what good looking in the fill hole is, as there should be a baffle in there anyway.

 

Id park it until u figure out whats going on


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Did you pack the oil pump during assembly or prime the engine before the initial fire up? Which timing was "off", ignition or cam?

 

Just out of curiosity, is it necessary to pack these georotor pumps with something like petroleum jelly like it is on the old gear driven pushrod pumps?

 

i did not pack the oil pump, im going to go with no i didnt prime the engine and cam timing was off.

there wasnt a baffle on the valve cover so i was able to stare down at the cam caps which if there was oil getting up there i should have seen it. so analog oil pressure gauge? what kind of psi will i be looking for?

 

what kind of psi will i be looking for?

You should see 80-100 psi at cold startup.

Sounds to me like you're chasing nothing.

What is the specific issue with the vehicle.. just smoking?

If the oil pressure gauge is in the middle then you have pressure. Its just a pressure switch but it does verify the existance of pressure.

From the OP, it sounds like the factory gauge is registering zero oil pressure.

 

What was the timing off by? How much? Wait on that real oil pressure gauge then let us know. If you had no oil pressure you'd probably know.

 

I didnt check for certain but i believe it was off by 2 or possibly 3 teeth. it didnt make any obvious noise or anything that i could discern.

Sounds to me like you're chasing nothing.

What is the specific issue with the vehicle.. just smoking?

If the oil pressure gauge is in the middle then you have pressure. Its just a pressure switch but it does verify the existance of pressure. Having the cam timing off normally wont hurt anything on a 5.4 like a 4.6 because there is so much more piston to valve clearance. Did it smack a valve or no? If it didnt smack a valve then having the cam timing off wouldnt have hurt anything other than performance and once corrected there is no other permanent damage.

What color is it smoking? It could be coolant burning off just as easily as it could be oil. How bad is it smoking. Post a video.

it was just smoking and the oil pressure gauge was not showing any pressure. it was white smoke coming from the oil dipstick. i am not positive on whether it smacked a valve or not but im hoping it didnt. i was not able to remove the valve covers due to the covers being so close to the strut towers.

 

Sounds to me like you're chasing nothing.

What is the specific issue with the vehicle.. just smoking?

If the oil pressure gauge is in the middle then you have pressure. Its just a pressure switch but it does verify the existance of pressure. Having the cam timing off normally wont hurt anything on a 5.4 like a 4.6 because there is so much more piston to valve clearance. Did it smack a valve or no? If it didnt smack a valve then having the cam timing off wouldnt have hurt anything other than performance and once corrected there is no other permanent damage.

What color is it smoking? It could be coolant burning off just as easily as it could be oil. How bad is it smoking. Post a video.

 

Exactly as mentioned above. I pumped mine through the oil filter adapter housing.

 

You can go to your oriellys or autozone and buy a mechanical gauge that includes everything need to install for under 25 dollars. Remove the OEM sending unit and install the feed line there to test. I dont have aftermarket gauges in my car yet... I want to but I want some other things first. Its all about money. I tested my motor for oil pressure though awhile back and at hot idle with AC on I was seeing 18lbs and it instantly went to above 60 once I touch the throttle... I would like a little more at idle but there isnt anything wrong with 18lbs at 850rpm. Been running strong and making 600rwhp still a year later...

Actually now that i think of it I bet the pressure is higher now that I have swapped my stock heads for TFS heads with GT Supercar rocker arms. OEM PI heads are horrible about bleeding pressure off everywhere.

My next mod is to install my J&S safeguard, LFP extreme heat exchanger and alky control meth kit spraying 100% meth. Maybe I can work in a gauge set sometime around there.

 

10lbs per thousand rpms usually so if you was getting 10lbs at 750 rpms thats good pressure

 

While that is the general "rule of thumb", I really like to see a little more than that on these engines, especially if we're talking about a 4V. The pressure seen at the cam journals is quite a bit less than at the oil filter adapter (which is where you're typically reading from).

 

so i just pulled my oil filter and theres no oil in it. My auto meter oil pressure gauge is reading 0psi BUT the engine is running and there doesnt seem to be any noise or explosions.

WHAT THE CRAP IS GOING ON!?!?!?!?

 

Yep. See post #16. http://www.moddedmustangs.com/forums/99-04/472105-help-engine-ruined.html#post9045186

How long have you let the engine idle? You haven't opened the throttle at all, have you? Assuming no major damage has been done at this point, you may be able to prime the pump and be alright.

 

Ouch. This ain't good. Definately nothing good in there now with no pressure that long. Honestly though,I don't prime them. I've had several apart years later for more mods or other work and the bearings still look unused still. I always get oil pressure almost immediately on startup with a good amount of assembly lube throughout the pump when assembling. Never had an issue whatsoever.

 

I always get oil pressure almost immediately on startup with a good amount of assembly lube throughout the pump when assembling. Never had an issue whatsoever.

:yes And that's why. Packing the pump with assembly lube, petroleum jelly, etc., or priming it with oil allows the pump gears to seal well enough to draw oil up the pickup tube. A dry, virgin pump has a very difficult time doing so.

 

Well yeah...lol. Who in the world would put a pump in dry?

 

See post #11.

 

I think the oil pump was about the only thing I didn't use assembly lube on.

Do you mean the port for the oil pressure gauge i just installed? Or the port for the oil filter?

If it needs a rebuild so be it but it hasn't made any sound so the assembly lube might have saved it? I will see when I drain the break in oil and switch to synthetic.

 

Do you mean the port for the oil pressure gauge i just installed? Or the port for the oil filter?

Either. Assuming you are running a stock filter arrangement, you can just use the pressure port on the oil filter adapter housing. Remove your gauge line or sending unit, and tie in at that port.

 

can you please explain in detail what the procedure for priming the system be?

 

Seems I missed quite a bit today.


At this point, you just need to get the pump "wet" so that it will draw. Drain a few quarts from the pan, hook up a pressurized source of oil (such as the setup I posted a picture of) to your oil pressure sender port, and send a few quarts in.

so i primed the engine but the engine still isnt building oil pressure. i suspected that the gauge may be faulty but i tested the gauge and it seemed to measure pressure just fine.

so with that in mind why wouldnt my engine be building oil pressure? i plan to take the oil pan off and do some investigating but it would be helpful to know what im looking for and where i made a mistake.

And that's why I cringed when you said it ran for at least 15 minutes and that you'd taken it above idle. The oil pump is most likely trashed, as the oil pump gears will eat into the aluminum housing quite rapidly in the absence of oil.

the rod beaings were incorrect size but i replaced them and it seemed alright.

pretty sure the pickup tube has its o-ring but im going to pull the pan anyway because thats the only thing I can do thats left. could be a bad oil pump but how would it be considered bad?

That post throws up a number of red flags.

Tang I Pmd you about your primer because I was going to try something different and use the primer this time. I have never used a primer in the past and on a mod motor I never will after thinking things through. every motor I have finished has primed in seconds and has lived long lives because assembly lubes main job is to lubricate during the first startup.

What scares me about priming a fresh motor Is I use a lot of assembly lube when assembling a motor and the assembly lube is designed to keep the parts lubricated during the start up process and it will remain in the bearings even for a few minutes until washed out by the pressure building in the oil system at which point the oil takes over the lubrication process.

When you prime you was out all the assembly lube from between the bearing ETC and then you end up with a truly dry bearing startup because engine oil is not designed to lubricate on a system that is not primed until the system primes itself which in turn can cause bearing damage. What am I missing about this whole priming thing?

That homemade pump primer might produce 10 psi. It absolutely does not wipe the assembly lube from bearing surfaces. I've opened up two engines now post-priming but prior to initial startup (due to unrelated circumstances), and in both cases it was readily evident that the bearings were still well coated with assembly lube.

so should i be anticipating pulling this motor and sending it to a machine shop or is it maybe possible to salvage my folly?

I havent determined what the culprit is but am just wondering about any damage and what I can do

I'll be honest, running for over 15 minutes without oil pressure will not be kind to the bearing surfaces, the cylinder walls, even the valvesprings. That goes ten-fold if you revved it or put any load on it. That being said, I wouldn't throw in the towel until you've opened it up and completed a thorough examination.

I don't recall seeing it mentioned, but I would say pull the valve covers, remove the cam girdles and see what it looks like. Since the cam journals are the last part to get oil, coupled with the fact there's no bearings, just an aluminum surface, in the event of oil starvation they should be the worst spot. That should give you a rough idea of how much trouble you may be in.

:yes

negatory. the valve covers can not come off. in the event that the valve covers ened to come off, the whole engine will be pulled.

it seems that pulling the oil pan is more involved than just unfastening the bolts. appears that the engine has to be raised and/or the k-member must be dropped

:yes

 

Not my video, but it explains it. Not 100% sure if I remember the size, but I think I used a 5/16" or 1/4" NPT barbed fitting to connect to the oil filter adapter housing.

 

How to prime a 3v 2v 4v mustang engine . - YouTube

Not my video, but it explains it. Not 100% sure if I remember the size, but I think I used a 5/16" or 1/4" NPT barbed fitting to connect to the oil filter adapter housing.

Nice video!

 

so i primed the engine but the engine still isnt building oil pressure. i suspected that the gauge may be faulty but i tested the gauge and it seemed to measure pressure just fine.

so with that in mind why wouldnt my engine be building oil pressure? i plan to take the oil pan off and do some investigating but it would be helpful to know what im looking for and where i made a mistake.

 

Forgetting the O ring on the pickup tube, improper bearing clearances, bad oil pump, blockage in a oil gallery are places to start. Did you have the block hot tanked and cleaned?

 

yes i had the block hot tanked and cleaned.

the rod beaings were incorrect size but i replaced them and it seemed alright.

pretty sure the pickup tube has its o-ring but im going to pull the pan anyway because thats the only thing I can do thats left. could be a bad oil pump but how would it be considered bad?

 

Describe, "seemed alright "

 

Bearing clearances should be between 0.0014 to .0030 for a race motor
Stock motor .001-.014 up to .0023 is allowable according to Ford but I would NEVER run a main bearing any less than .0010
Crankshaft end play between .004-.008.

Do you recall what your clearances were? what did you use to measure your clearances? Its always best to use your OLD bolts to measure and set your clearances since they have already been stretched and broke in.

It makes a bit of a mess, but anytime I start a motor and the filter is mounted horizontal fill it up then cup your hand over the end and start the filter as fast as possible so there is some oil in the filter when you fist startup.

You definitely have an issue since there is no oil at all in the filter something that comes to mind for me since "bottledgt brought it up in another thread" is you oil pickup tube, did you use the proper sized spacer in between the main cap bolt and the pickup? if not it could have pushed the oil pickup to close to the pan not allowing oil to suck up into the tube causing a vacuum. the o ring s also Vital that needs to be verified.

---------- Post added at 08:06 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:03 AM ----------

Its not dry no matter how you want to paint your picture of it. You act like a motor can't turn over more than twice or it's gonna burn a bearing.dumb

Hey BUD there is no need in calling names during a discussion if you get ass hurt that much step back a minute and regain your composure before resorting to that type of behavior.

 

Its not a theory its a fact that assembly lube protects during first startup. Its the period after a vehicle starts and runs that damages the bearings if oil pressure is not achieved, and by washing out pre lube you remove the protective layer from in between the bearings. If a person primes and bleeds the fuel system on a fresh motor there is not an extended cranking period on first startup. I personally have not had a motor not startup almost instantly after a fresh build.

---------- Post added at 07:18 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:06 AM ----------

Dry is a term used in the industry on a first startup when you have insufficient assembly lube in between the bearings. . and essentially once your hand prime wash out the assembly lube and start a motor with no oil pressure there is no fresh oil getting to the bearing and there is no longer assembly lube in between the surfaces this is the point at which you have a dry bearing, what is hard to understand about that?

 

Its not dry no matter how you want to paint your picture of it. You act like a motor can't turn over more than twice or it's gonna burn a bearing.dumb