You set up a meth injection similar to nitrous. I was looking into some kits for FI applications. I would set it up to kick in at what ever pound of boost I choose or WOT. similar to setting nitrous to kick in at certain rpm or WOT.

 

but wouldn't that pose a problem in the winter with the temperature being so low?

 

so you want to run around in boost and spray meth in the winter? where do you live?

 

No, I dont want to spray when its cold, but I am saying if I increase the spark advance and dont spray I would get detination. I live in VA.

 

well, for nitrous you retard spark advance to avoid detonation, i dont know anything about meth injection but i suspect its the same thing, so if thats the case you have nothing to worry about. I wouldint want to advance me global spark...then add meth....sounds like it would detonate for sure. Or is that the rule for Meth...having to increase the spark advance?

 

Thats the rule for meth. Meth doesn't add power buy itself, by dropping the intake temp you get power. Your not adding a gas which increases combustion temp/pressure. Your adding a coolant to the air to get a denser/cooler air charge. Then you would want to increase the timing to where it starts to detonate then back off a couple of degrees. A lot of subbie guys do it so they can crank up the timing and add boost on the factory setups. There are some pretty hard runners out there with stock turbos and meth. Only thing is, a lot of them found out the hard way that running a meth specific tune on the street is a bad idea. Run out of meth, get a plugged/cut line, pump fails = detonation city.

 

wow....but meth does burn as well right?

 

Yeah, but not nearly as hot as N20... It doesn't increase the cylinder pressure hardly at all and decreases combustion temp. Where as N20 can decrease combustion temp but it also adds a LOT to combustion pressure. You can also use both N20 and Meth injection.

Meth/Water Injection Facts by AIS (Alcy Injection Systems)

 

Meth is a total waste of time unless your IATs are 150+.

 

just curious as to how common are temps of 150+?

 

Super common on non-IC blower cars. They can get to 200+ fairly easily and typically are always over 150. you can see them on IC'd PD blower cars too, but usually only if they are really boosting a small blower. A 1.7L KB at 14 psi will be about 170F, even with an IC. That is why its never a good idea to push them past about 12 psi.

 

Perhaps you can answer this question for me, could I install just one jet or enough to spray a 50/50 mixture before the IAT so I could keep my charge cool enough to not pull timing? I am not trying to increase boost I just want a cooler charge so wont have to worry about timing getting pulled if it gets warmer.

 

I am really curious about this too. I'm running an intercooled turbo car and I datalogged a pass friday night. Beginning of the run IAT's were 104. At the big end they were 146. Computer pulled all the way down to 11 degrees of timing. I'm running 10psi through a 60mm turbonetics. I'm in SE Texas so the weather right now sux.

One other thing, my IAT sensor is built into the maf on my car. Is there anyway to put meth injection before the maf, or will it damage it?

 

One other thing, my IAT sensor is built into the maf on my car. Is there anyway to put meth injection before the maf, or will it damage it?

At 10 psi you can probably set the tune up so nothing gets pulled until 150+. You can't spray meth on the maf, but you can get a new IAT sensor and relocate it to see boost. Thats the proper way to set up the IAT. I always get pissed off when customers have the IAT where it does not see boost. Basically it eliminates a great safety feature.

 

So if I just spray meth when I want, like a switch, then I wouldn't need to increase timing or anything? What your saying it meth injection is pretty much plug and play? I thought timing was the whole point of meth...

 

What kinda of numbers will I see if I add a Stage 3 Meth System to my car? It's naturally aspirated with a CAI. And will be tuned for Meth.

 

you sir need nitrous............

 

Let me put my input since I looked into a Methynol setup:



Methylol is sprayed as a liquid and converted to a gas on the compression stroke. It works to pull the heat out of the air in the cylinder which lowers the cylinder heat and that adds horsepower. Not much horsepower naturally aspirated but with Forced Induction it can help alot.

No, I dont want to spray when its cold, but I am saying if I increase the spark advance and dont spray I would get detination. I live in VA.

That is how you make horsepower by increasing the timing advance but that can cause detonation. Methynol is more flammable than gas but has a higher octane rating. Methynol can increase the detonation resistance of gas as much as 27 points and more or less. It depends on how much you are spraying as to how much it increases.

well, for nitrous you retard spark advance to avoid detonation, i dont know anything about meth injection but i suspect its the same thing, so if thats the case you have nothing to worry about. I wouldint want to advance me global spark...then add meth....sounds like it would detonate for sure. Or is that the rule for Meth...having to increase the spark advance?

The whole point of methynol is to cool the inlet air temperature and octane rateing of fuel. It is common practice to hike the timing up when spraying because of the added protection from the cooler temps and increased octane rateing.

Thats the rule for meth. Meth doesn't add power buy itself, by dropping the intake temp you get power. Your not adding a gas which increases combustion temp/pressure. Your adding a coolant to the air to get a denser/cooler air charge. Then you would want to increase the timing to where it starts to detonate then back off a couple of degrees. A lot of subbie guys do it so they can crank up the timing and add boost on the factory setups. There are some pretty hard runners out there with stock turbos and meth. Only thing is, a lot of them found out the hard way that running a meth specific tune on the street is a bad idea. Run out of meth, get a plugged/cut line, pump fails = detonation city.

This is a correct explanation since if only spraying methynol doesn't add power but add 10 degrees of timing and you have horsepower.

wow....but meth does burn as well right?

Methynol actually has a higher flash point and doesn't burn as well. That is why methynol increases the octane rating of gas. It is kind of like running C16 race gas which is harder to ignite in the cylinder but that also resist detonation.

Meth is a total waste of time unless your IATs are 150+.

Somewhat true but I know a couple people with high compression naturally aspirated motors than run it with great success. For a lower compression forced induction completely correct since higher intake air temps will increase the chance of detonation due to high cylinder temps.

just curious as to how common are temps of 150+?

when spinning a supercharger faster than anticipated of faster than its perfect compressor map then it creates heat. It already makes heat by compressing air (which causes friction which intern causes heat) then if you start spinning the hell out of it to make the boost the air temp can get crazy hot. I have seen on an 04 Cobra with the stock Eaton and a failed intercooler pump have IAT's of 280+ degrees. That will cause detonation very easily.

Perhaps you can answer this question for me, could I install just one jet or enough to spray a 50/50 mixture before the IAT so I could keep my charge cool enough to not pull timing? I am not trying to increase boost I just want a cooler charge so wont have to worry about timing getting pulled if it gets warmer.

It make take some R/D to find the right mixture since it depends on how much heat the turbo is making at that boost. Then you would have to take intercooler efficiency into effect to see how well of a job it is doing cooling the air temps.

I am really curious about this too. I'm running an intercooled turbo car and I datalogged a pass friday night. Beginning of the run IAT's were 104. At the big end they were 146. Computer pulled all the way down to 11 degrees of timing. I'm running 10psi through a 60mm turbonetics. I'm in SE Texas so the weather right now sux.

One other thing, my IAT sensor is built into the maf on my car. Is there anyway to put meth injection before the maf, or will it damage it?

Again this is done in the tune and you may be able to change the actual amount the computer pulls at a given IAT. Mine only pulls 8 degrees but the temp would have to get to 175 degrees which it doesn't. My AIT is around 120 degrees after a 1/4 mile pass on an 80 degree day. This is post intercooler but I also have a more efficient air to water setup. The air to air do a good job also but the turbo may be out of its ideal compressor map causing it to make more heat. I know Forensicsteve's car was almost 270 degrees when running 20 psi. and he runs a 76mm. You can't spray methynol through the mass air meter, it wasn't designed to meter water and will be easily damaged. I would change it to a blow through after the intercooler since that would give you the TRUE AIT.

What kinda of numbers will I see if I add a Stage 3 Meth System to my car? It's naturally aspirated with a CAI. And will be tuned for Meth.

you will see minimal gains unless you hike the timing up since methynol does not add horsepower only increase resistance to detonation.

you sir need nitrous............

methynol can be great if set up correct. nitrous is a power adder since it increases cylinder pressure and 2 power adders can be hell especially on a stock motor. on a naturally aspirated car go with the nitrous.


This isn't all 100% correct but what I have learned recently due to reading up on methynol lately. I do know from working with methynol in the oilfield that it isn't very flammable and has a high flash point. That would increase the resistance to detonation on gas since it would make it "harder" to ignite.

 

well KB my "you need nitrous" post was directed to a guy that is N/A wondering about spraying meth.........I think it would be more benificial on that motor to use nitrous.